Are the Tea Party members anti-tax rebels? Yes. Are they anti-government agitators? Yes, and check. Are they batshit crazy? Double-Check. But last night, Americans viewing Monday’s Republican debate found a new wrinkle in the Tea Party’s personality profile.
When the Republican presidential candidates met Monday night for the CNN/Tea Party debate in Tampa, Florida, Ron Paul got a taste of the voters he’s catering to when asked by moderator Wolf Blitzer whether or not a hospital should let a sick man without insurance die.
The audience response even took pro-Secessionist Texas Governor and Tea Party darling Rick Perry aback. Watch the video here.
Blitzer: You’re a physician, Ron Paul, you’re a doctor. You know something about this subject. Let me ask you this hypothetical question. A healthy 30-year-old young man has a good job, makes a good living, but decides I’m not going to spend $200 or $300 a month because I’m healthy, I don’t need it. But something terrible happens, all of a sudden he needs it. Who will pay if he goes into a coma, who pays for that?
Paul: In a society that you accept welfarism and socialism, he expects the government to take care of him.
Blitzer: What do you want?
Paul: What he should do is whatever he wants to do and assume responsibility for himself. My advice to him would be have a major medical policy.
Blitzer: He doesn’t have that and he needs intensive care for six months. Who pays?
Paul: That’s what freedom is all about, taking your own risks. This whole idea that you have to prepare and take care of everybody —
Audience: [applause]
Blitzer: but congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die?
Audience: [shouts of “yeah!”]
It’s official. The Tea Party is populated by sociopathic goons.
Yes – I understand and respect where you’re coming from Fe. Specially in a country like the US, where there’s a lot of hypocrisy and lies at the top, paraded as the truth.
Huffy:
As said in the wisdom of Shrek: “Better out than in”, and in this case — best to expose the fungus to the light.
Agreed, but for perhaps a different reason as to what these events say and do to us, and what they bring out in us. Most people I have encountered when faced with this type of barbarity either are in shock and/or stunned-speechless.
I’ve been verbally attacked by pro-lifers while waiting for a subway to the Democratic National Convention in Boston, you take your footing and stand still while they vent or you answer back and let the heat build. Not that they are listening.
I don’t think people who publicly express the sentiments described in the article should be given a pass. I think they need to be shamed. There’s a childish bloodthirstyness that needs to be examined. When Bush II came to power, all of the meanest, most racist and sexist aspects of our society were given free rein, because they had permission from the top.
These feelings festered for decades beforehand. It’s good that they are out in the open, but those expressing these values need to realize the time for this type of mindset is over. The rest of us can’t handle that by ignoring it, but by confronting it.To complete what you said, we see what it brings out in us and we need to move the energy out.
While I know that’s it’s vitally important to be well informed and that one should look the darker side of reality in the face, and not bury ones head in the sand, ostrich style – at the same time, watching stuff like this doesn’t do any good for ones blood pressure or adrenal glands. The people in the audience who cheered at the idea of some guy dying are for the most part ignorant, afraid and deeply frustrated – leading pretty miserable lives. It wasn’t that long ago that afro americans were lynched in the southern states of America – and though times have greatly changed, there will always be angry mobs, corrupt politicians, etc – it’s all in Shakespeare’s plays. So let’s cut ourselves a break and when we see this stuff happening, tune into what it brings out in us.
I was appalled but neither surprised or shocked by what happened. I honestly didn’t expect an intelligent, well thought-out debate anyway, so this little ‘death panel’ outburst fit my expectations perfectly.
The more the TP’ers come out like this now, the less we will have to worry about them actually making any sense come election time. If they’re crazy now, they’ll be crazier by then…
Neptune-Uranus, HA! Aquarius’ ruling planets… 🙂
okay, so ron paul’s words as i read them here seemed to hold water; honestly, i don’t have a lot of time for these people. there are real people to be and work into the future with.
Maria wrote: “None of it holds up. It makes me feel like I’m trapped in some kind of troll spiral to even try to make logical points. Is there some other way to deal with this kind of thinking?” Truly it is an evil troll spiral, and it is so bizarre that it defies comprehension.
Eric suggested: “Some tactic other than negotiation must be used, which on the one hand could be taking a feet of clay strategy and washing it out from beneath, or responding with some kind of more enveloping power, be it political, judicial or grass roots. But there is unlikely to be any response if one cannot identify and get past the intimidation and actually respond.”
I, personally, am not intimidated, but rather flummoxed, baffled, bewildered (certrainly not bewitched but definitely bothered), mystified and find myself resembling Farfel the Dog, with my mouth opening and clanging shut with nary a sound or any words coming forth. You not only can’t negotiate, you generally can’t even comment without being shouted down. Okay, so maybe that is intimidation.
And, it is all so illogical, untruthful and callously uncaring when it isn’t just plain evil, that it is impossible to respond. As one friend says “Never validate stupidity by trying to refute it.”
So, how to respond? Where’s the water to wash it away? What power would be more enveloping?
JannKinz
Maria, hypocrisy is a drug. For those who have a taste for it — and even those who don’t — they get a little dose — it works — and the result is POWER. Then they try a little more and soon enough, the whole psychic engine is being run on the dragon’s blood of hypocrisy. Like the mafia, like terrorists, like those who use the legal system for various scams, it’s impossible to negotiate with. Some tactic other than negotiation must be used, which on the one hand could be taking a feet of clay strategy and washing it out from beneath, or responding with some kind of more enveloping power, be it political, judicial or grass roots. But there is unlikely to be any response if one cannot identify and get past the intimidation and actually respond.
The death penalty is human sacrifice. That is why those in power love it. It also reminds the masses that they have the power to kill, and this seems to be a favorite flagpole around which ‘the masses’ love to rally.
Witness therein the right-wing hate machine hearing the growl of the monster its created. Heads up, Perry & Company: it’ll eat you too, along with the targets you’ve unleashed it on. Welcome to the fire next time people, in a whole different way.
oh n also: anyone can move from the ranks of the “can’t get it together” to that of the helping hands at any time. I wonder if the ones yelling in affirmation to “let him die” realize any one of them could end up as a politician’s real-life talking point tonight, after a car accident or a salmonella salad or an assault.
and: don’t get why it’s OK for physician Ron Paul and Bachmann’s husband to take federal money, but if someone else does it, it’s “not being responsible for oneself.”
None of it holds up. It makes me feel like I’m trapped in some kind of troll spiral to even try to make logical points. Is there some other way to deal with this kind of thinking?
Here’s link to Rick Perry’s Gardasil policy/drug money connection:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/09/14/bloomberg1376-LRHGBP6KLVR701-6EG09OS11J0IBG3CMPVL8U3BIG.DTL
aquarius 40:
Good catch on Neptune-Uranus. Sounds about right, and we need to bear witness and act if need be.
zerosity, don’t apologize — you nailed it. clinkjet: yes — great point about a poorly chosen “example.”
Maria:
I guess we bear witness to the de-evolution as well as to its opposite ’round here. Not enough can or should be said about the free fall of some members of this presumed democracy. Cautionary tales.
“It doesn’t matter whether it makes sense, is logical or moral or ethical. You’re dealing with beliefs here, and there’s a huge disconnect with reality that makes the regard of this sector of American politics a sick joke.”
I wonder if this is one of the more truly negative manifestations of Neptune in Pisces coupled with Uranus in Aries that we’ll be seeing a lot more of in the upcoming years?
But wait – did you catch the scenario?
“Blitzer: You’re a physician, Ron Paul, you’re a doctor. You know something about this subject. Let me ask you this hypothetical question. A healthy 30-year-old young man has a good job, makes a good living, but decides I’m not going to spend $200 or $300 a month because I’m healthy, I don’t need it….”
In general, since when do people with “good” jobs making “good” livings decide not to have insurance? Most people without insurance are people on the suffering end of the system. Blitzer did not ask, “A man working hard to support his family lost his home and his job and then was in a car accident”…nor did he present, “a hardworking American citizen who lives responsibly and tries to utilize alternative methods of health care was hit by a car….”
The response from the audience was grossly of the gladiator realm…made worse by the fact that they’re taking a position that will harm people who are actually suffering, under the pretense of responsibility.
Blame the victim 101.
And speaking of responsible living, since when is the medical industry so squeaky clean?
The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree. Son Rand Paul says black lung ain’t no thing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/07/rand-paul-black-lung-big-coal_n_845840.html
Perry pushed gardisil because he gets drug company money. The person who pointed this out, and made possibly inaccurate (or possibly accurate) claims about gardisil is Michelle bachmann, whose husband has a “pray the gay away” “clinic.” I would not trust her for science info, but her minions know how to read a finance report, don’t they?
Bachmann’s husband’s clinic gets Medicare (federal) money. Baggers are chomping each other like sharks in a chum bucket.
Self-responsibility also means creating a community where the ones who can’t get it together don’t end up dragging you down. There are different ways to do this: let them die, or help them out. I like the latter.
Fe, thanks for posting this and for being appalled. Sorry for typos.
The audience response made me sick to my stomach.
Honestly – physically, sick because I realized we have devolved to a blatant Darwinism society.
They don’t even try to hide the fact that they are sociopathic goons anymore.
Ditto on Ron Paul is full of shit.
“Self-responsibility”? Really. My father drilled it in to me that I HAD to have medical insurance. That was forty years ago. (Talk about a belief that needs to be examined.) I have been self-employed since 1978. I don’t even want to contemplate what I have paid in medical insurance premiums almost thirty-five years. Have I had claims? Yes. I have had surgeries and prescriptions, but none of those in almost twenty years, not since I got smarter and tried to figure out other ways to take responsibility for my health without chemicals.
In the last ten years, there is an annual spring ritual when Blue Cross raises the premium amount and I decrease my coverage to have a manageable premium. I search for an alternative company, alternative coverages. Currently I have the bare minimum (I can go to the doctor twice a year…whoo hooh!), and this costs me over $500 per month for one person. How many people can afford $500 a month just for medical insurance? Especially insurance that won’t pay for preventative care.
In 2010, my costs just for insurance premiums (car, house, office, professional, medical) and real estate taxes was almost $35,000.00. One has the insurance so one can protect one’s assets from being taken when one cannt pay for some claim. And the real estate – we only rent if from the government year by year in the form of taxes. If I don’ t pay the real estate taxes I won’t have any property assets to protect and I guess then I wouldn’t have to pay insurance premiums. Pretty convoluted. So, what happens in my self-employed world when my income no longer supports those kinds of expenditures? Guess I’m finding out now.
A friend (albeit of the “red” persuasion) commented two years ago that we didn’t need any universal health care, that it was socialism, and he, by gawd, would just pay for his own medical insurance. I responded that was okay as long as he could afford it. He snarled at me. Well, this past spring, he closed his business and was kvetching about the increasing cost of premiums for his medical insurance with little or no income. My, my.
I have to wonder how many of those who scream to let someone die for lack of ability to pay for the exorbitant costs of medical care or insurance – just how many of them are actually writing that check each month for the premiums, and if not the premiums, the checks for the deductible costs that can send one into bankruptcy? My guess is not a one is actually paying for their medical insurance or paying much of anything for the costs of their health care.
Yes, it is an ugly, ugly mob mentality. We should be so lucky that they would all eat each other.
Fortunately, I can pay attention to the astrology of what is happening on the planet and with its people, and at least have a glimmer of understanding – the first step to doing something. As Indranibe noted, voting is doing something. In Michael Moore’s movie “Sicko” he asked a British activist about universal health care in the US. The activist responded that it wouldn’t happen in the US because people would have to vote, and people don’t vote when they are kept in fear and in debt. And I look around and what do I see…
Okay. Enough. Sorry for the verbose rant this early. And I am very grateful for the wisdom in PW.
JannKinz
Here’s a thought for you: ask these “rugged individualists” who seem to have infiltrated the political scene the world over what should happen when companies fail – should they be allowed to go into bankruptcy, which is a form of corporate welfare wherein the state, and society bears the cost of failure? (Think Enron) Or should these corporations be denied the opportunity to go into backruptcy and allow their creditors to strip the assets of both the company and its directors? Should off-shore tax haven be encouraged or made illegal?
We had a federal politician here (in fact, he was the Treasurer), who got up and told the world that “Australia is too generous to its single mothers”. Well, this single mother wants to know if the same applies to its company directors? And what about its politicians, who themselves live off the fat of the land (who pays their salaries??) and the largesse of the people (who pays those salaries??), yet once they get into power, forget who their real masters are – not lobbyists, not Murdoch or oil barons, or arms dealers, but the people who put them there.
It’s time that people exercised their right to veto, and simply said “No” at the ballot box. And as to those who continue to say “yes”, the question is, “What do you think is in it for you?”
I can’t understand how the people of America let things get to this level. The right to vote is a gift – it’s one of the most powerful gifts in a person’s “civic possession”. I can’t believe how few Americans even bother to use it when it actually counts. Here in Australia, we are coming to understand how precious our vote it, and we are learning to use it more and more ruthlessly. Once awakened from the stupor of the Howard years, we are no longer prepared to stand by and watch a Labor government take us for the same ride. Come on America – rise and shine!
Ron Paul is full of shit. I don’t have the energy to explain why right now.
Hey fontanelle:
It’s not Ron Paul or his comments that are of concern here, but the audience reaction, or the reaction of some of the participants. It’s off-the-charts inappropriate.
okay, i get that cheering the idea of some guy dying is weird and forgive me, but i think, eric was talking about it on the podcast, two ago, that people want others to tell them what to do. ron paul’s comments have a point. he’s advocating self responsibility which maybe some people need to try.
eric:
Exactly. These are people who have taken the CARTOON of Reaganomics to the level of religion.
It doesn’t matter whether it makes sense, is logical or moral or ethical. You’re dealing with beliefs here, and there’s a huge disconnect with reality that makes the regard of this sector of American politics a sick joke.
Whoever is funding their existence and credibility does not care what they believe in, as long as they are on the receiving end of the financial benefits of bringing a country’s government to ruin.
I just saw the video of that moment in the debate. Pretty sick; we are turning into a country of mob rules.
Gardasil came up during the debate; the accusation was that it causes mental retardation. I have not heard that problem per se but I’ve heard a lot of other problems. Tonight Rachel Maddow was on advocating the vaccine on the claim that it’s safe and effective.
—
Dear Rachel, there are BIG issues with Gardasil. Google “Gardasil girls” and you will see. Also the vaccine — assuming it works — only covers four types of HPV, out of about 200 total known strains.
Also, please see this editorial from JAMA. It does not talk about the Gardasil girls, but it does talk about why the thing is basically pointless.
http://planetwaves.net/pagetwo/daily-astrology/hpv-vaccination-gardasi/
Eric Francis
Planet Waves, Inc.
http://planetwaves.net/