Planet Waves FM :: Blue Studio Series (sex conversations)

Blue Studio on Nov. 11, 2012

Welcome to the first edition of the Blue Studio Series — conversations about sex with Planet Waves readers. These are not really interviews; they are an exchange of ideas, in an informal, free-form format. Nora is a 56-year-old mom and grandmother, who has discovered her freedom and is now exploring erotic adventures. This discussion is about one hour. In this series, we’ll be hearing from people — so far, women — of a diversity of ages and sexual orientations.

If you have written to me about participating but have not heard back, please email me again at with a clear subject header. In the frenzy of last week’s election edition, I may have lost track of a few contacts. Please let us know how you like the series, and you may direct any questions for Nora in the comments area; she will be reading, and will reply. –efc

46 thoughts on “Planet Waves FM :: Blue Studio Series (sex conversations)”

  1. Stumbled over this relevant quote on Suzi Droznek’s Starcana daily for the eclipse:

    “Let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love.” Rumi

    Speaks to me, again, of the transcendent quality of desire and where pure (as opposed to distorted) desire takes us if we let it.

  2. And furthermore: Desire Nature (as I call it) simply ROCKS! It never fails to lead me right where I need to go in the next step of my evolutionary journey. And of course it has taken a lot of gentle & loving un-learning of my judeo-christian upbringing to achieve this understanding. Thank goodness for my sexually liberated pagan dad to show me the vitality of pleasure as a path. Turns out the bad guy most of my life sort of got it right, even if he did things clumsily at times regarding his commitments and honesty.

    As I joked with a new man-friend the other night, I think [the archetypal energy that we ID as] Jesus wants nothing more than for me to have amazing orgasms! Especially via connecting and opening my heartspace to another. What could be holier than that?

    Yes, desire has been my best and most efficient navigational tool towards growth, opening, and healthy integration of all my buried parts. Interesting discussions here about the way various spiritual paths have postured themselves towards the pandora’s box of desire… It’s nice to finally know and be confident of what works for me, and this community is a great source of validation and support. Thanks again Eric, PW staff and extended family.

  3. Cutest. Quote. Ever. (recorded for all time in my e-journal):

    “You can’t be a little chickenshit and have any sexual adventures. Therefore, be brave, little buckaroo.” –EFC 🙂

    Duly noted! This story has re-centered me, gotten me out of fear and back into love regarding healthy vs. unhealthy commitment and opening to another. What a gift, Eric and Nora. Thank you for your candor and courage in opening up this dialogue. And, as usual, it came in the nick of time, with absurd amounts of synchronicity regarding events unfolding in my personal life. We are all, indeed, so connected.

  4. Huffy, you continue to inspire me with your compassion and gentleness.
    Nora, that is an amazing story! And thank you for your opening and sharing.

  5. We all share experiences of woundedness that, more often than not, are played out in our intimate relationships. That woundedness can be the source of our greatest fears (abandonment, death) or it can be the source of our greatest healing.

    A few years ago, my car went out of control, when I hit the brakes to avoid hitting another car that had stopped fast. My car was fishtailing across several lanes of rush hour traffic on the busiest of highways. Although I tried hard to get it under control, there was that point, when I came to the realization that there was no way I could control it. Suddenly, this amazing sense of calmness came over me. I remembering saying to myself that there was nothing I could do, and I let go of the steering wheel. In that moment, I totally surrendered to whatever was going to happen next. Within a few seconds my car’s back end fish tailed around and hit the guardrail. The car than spun around 180 degrees and came to a sudden stop. It was facing the wrong direction, but I was safely off the side of the road and out of traffic. How I managed not to hit another car or be hit was to this day a big mystery. More importantly, I was not hurt, just shakened by the experience. This experience was a valuable lesson to me. In that moment of surrender, I was actually empowered.

  6. Regarding those lyrics, imoabraham, most peeps don’t know the full extent of Ms West’s wit in the instance referenced therein….

    Why dontcha come up and see me sometime?

    Why dontcha make it a Wednesday?

    It’s amateur night.


    prescription for un-wadding of panties:

    just take ’em OFF!

  7. And sorry Nora, Eric, not to have commented on the interview – am up to my ears this week and have no time to listen for the moment – look forward to it and to this week’s PW FM too,

  8. Alayne – you’ve prob stopped reading PW by now. But just in case – I’d miss your comments here, your honesty. From my own experience, when something brings up so much anger in me it’s usually because it’s touching on something deep and painful. This is powerful, healing (and for that reason very challenging) astrology – and if you could ride this wave, you could come up with something big. Don’t mean to intrude, I don’t know you – but wanted to give it a try.

  9. First, Eric–’nuff respect on your report on today’s Solar Eclipse. I appreciate your focus on the human evolution opportunities of this moment, person by person. As to the Blue sessions–hooray!! Let’s Talk about Sex!!! I thought Nora did an excellent job of sharing her enthusiasms and I see nothing at all dangerous in her adventures, especially as Nick is an experienced investigator. She was indeed generous in her recounting. What resonated most for me was her advice to her 21 year old self. One thing I would add–and I love the fact that you emphasize this–Eros is GOOD, it’s just as GOOD as Agape–and the two combined are DYNO-MITE!!! So, teach your children well and encourage deep sensuality. Here, I’m moved to add a recent song lyric–Neo Courtesan Rag–and I hope this is not TMI:
    Neo-Courtesan Rag
    I’m old fashioned
    In a post-modern sort of way
    Helen Gurley Brown
    taught me sexuali-tay
    Ditto Marilyn Monroe
    And Jackie Kennedy
    Oral birth control
    Is mothers’ milk to me
    A spiritual sensualist
    is what I try to be
    One thing for sure
    I’m not afraid
    of sexuality
    For my erotic models
    I turn to history
    Madame de Stael,
    Les Grandes Horizontales
    have a lot to teach
    Being pleasing is a goal
    ‘most everyone can reach
    Basking in bodily delight
    imagined or real
    Is fine for either day or night
    approached with sex appeal
    The stem-cell of desire
    pleasures re-imagined
    designed to take you higher–
    lamp rub by Aladdin
    Mae West
    Is best
    for saucy reparte
    Says bluntly to her beau
    ‘Yo! Bwoy! Come up and party!’
    I’m kind of old-fashioned
    behind the trends
    Ms. West
    said it best
    ‘I like men in my life
    and life in my men!’
    8/16/12 Mill Valley

  10. One ore thing – Nora – what are you, two? “Go girl?” Do you honestly think that everyone has been as repressed as you? Asshole.

  11. This wretched thread has succeeded in greatly exacerbating all of the rotten physical symptoms I have been experiencing. You “win.” I won’t be back, and, Eric, have one of your minions delete my account. This has been insane. The level of vehemence expressed here does, in fact, make it impossible for me to even glance at any Planet Waves material again. I cannot, as I thought, separate out the man from the astrologer after all.

  12. Alayne,

    Please do not stop posting. Instead of assuming things about you, I would like to know what about the interview made you write your initial post. Is there some experience you have had that brought you to that post? What were your feelings after hearing the interview? Perhaps by sharing the answers to these I can better understand your initial reaction. I am really interested; I have no agenda or desire to fault your feelings. If you share, maybe I can better understand your perspective. If you wish to share; if not I respect your choice.

    After all, as my therapists always said, “Feelings are not wrong, they just are. It is what we do with/about them that can be positive or negative.”

  13. “You don’t know what Nora needed to experience or how valuable it was — to her. In making your statement and then evoking the Craig’s List Killer or whatever lurking anxiety, I think you attempted to make her experience into something less valuable than it was, and her daring offer to share her story less meaningful than it was, at least to the listeners I heard from.”

    My therapists always called me on it when I tried to decide what someone else thinks. Just as we don’t know wat Nora thinks (except those thoughts she shared in the interview) we don’t know what Alayne thinks (again, except those thoughts she shared here). Assignng motive to anyone’s actions or words is a slippery thing; without knowing what they think (or how they think or what their background is); how can we say what their motives or underlying beliefs are?

    I like all the comments here; to me they all add to the discussion. I also don’t think that dissent is always a bad thing; it is often through dissent or even arguments that we define ourselves and learn new things. I say this because the group I have belonged to for over 15 years (RE/RI from the old AOL Dare I Say It boards) has had many arguments and yet we all learned so much from each other through those and now we all love each other deeply. Just my 2 cents on this discussion.

  14. I came back to this, hoping to find no evidence of my posts, and cannot believe that everything has gotten even worse.

    Eric – you are a briliant and intuitive astrologer. As with astrologers, writers, artists, healers, etc., I believe it is a gift from the cosmos that, I believe they, (I), do their finest work, and not from the piddling flesh and blood body that we inhabit. It is often better not to know the person in terms of their “human” selves; it frees us, and them, and their work.

    And, so, to Eric, the human, I ask – What the hell benefit would it be to me to want to diminish the N&N experience. None. Absolutely none. If the mere entity that is me, could so comment as to make anyone’s story “less meaningful,” then what they hell kind of “meaning” did it have in the first place. No one has that power. No one. And, to state that it does, that I do, goes against everything you write when you speak from that special universal space.

    Only because you mentioned it, I vaguely remember hearing something about a Cl-related killer. I only mentioned the damned, now-crazy website, because that was the one that was used.

    I am extremely disappointed in myself for having made any comment. Geezus! I know better. So, the dis-ease that this has brought on – guess what – I brought it on myself.

    What do you want here? Should I prove my sexual exploits, my “love of men?”

    it was said of me, by men who did not use the word in usual conversation, that I gave a “cosmic” blowjob. You’re not getting one. But please do remove my comments and get laid by as many people as it takes, in whatever form it takes, ok. But I suggest that it is only rarely that anyone can have the kind of sexual freedom they truly want outside of a known relationship, by payinjg for it, which I consider rather honest.

  15. I am grateful for everyone’s comments! They are affirming…showing just how far I’ve come letting go of my own fears of rejection and insecurities. I am living my truth and having a damn good time at it. I AM free! Now on to my next adventure with Nick…stay tuned…(oh my..Nick…I didn’t know you could do THAT!)….. 😉

  16. (posted on the wrong thread)

    ah, the eclipse is showing her edge

    calling all crypto-scorpios

    efc, talking to Chelsea would kind of silly…

    you don’t suppress your employees (as far as I know), but your commentators

    not always, but often enough to be notable

  17. Mysti, maybe you can call up Chelsea (877) 453-8265 and ask her her opinion on whether she thinks for herself. Just about everyone who works with me and for me is available to the public; maybe ask their opinion on whether their personhood, opinions and independence of thought are valued by me and the rest of us here.

  18. Denying consciousness is saying, “That rock cannot do algebra,” or “that bumble bee cannot speak French” — because you don’t know. (Unless you do — I invite you to prove to me that rocks don’t do algebra, or that bees don’t speak French when you’re not listening.)

    You don’t know what Nora needed to experience or how valuable it was — to her. In making your statement and then evoking the Craig’s List Killer or whatever lurking anxiety, I think you attempted to make her experience into something less valuable than it was, and her daring offer to share her story less meaningful than it was, at least to the listeners I heard from.

  19. Completely enjoyed! I just began the journey at 70. Nora is so right, there is no age limit nor need to have a ‘perfect body’, just a willingness to let go of programming. Thank you Eric and Nora for this excellent conversation!

  20. Meta-commentary begin: Alayne, I have found your commentaries *very* interesting. I hope you will rescind your wish to be Deep-Sixed in this discussion. Yes, Eric tends to collect ‘yes-wo/men’… but some of us survive that context, and keep posting. There’s more than one voice here.

    But honestly, the vibe on his initial response to you felt to me mild, open and inquisitive. Others imputed hostility to you and defensiveness to him, and then the tension amped up a bit.

    Still doesn’t feel (to me) particularly hostile. (But then again, I come with rhinocerous DNA.)
    Meta-commentary end.

    I only listened to the first 10 minutes of the file. Nora seems like a nice enough person, and I know that this kind of exploration can be very daring and freeing on some levels. It *entirely* depends on the context of her current and historical relationships! I applaud her following through on the process, where ever it would take her. I do NOT think Nora’s adventures are a recommendation to others, but I often imagine that people have more common sense than they demonstrate.

    As for sexuality being non-romantic, non-special, etc. Hmm… Any of the 5 midbrain reflexive functions can quotidian: eating can be simply chowing down, anger can simply be territorial defense, fucking can simply be scratching a particularly deep itch, fleeing can simply be recoil or revulsion. But adjoining these to the rhythm of the cosmos is the work of culture, elevating the instinctual so that the *actions* thereof become gatekeeping and linkage to the stars is the point of ritual, mindfulness, organized play and art.

    Is there a better use of our time here?

  21. Hello, Eric — I have no idea what you mean by saying I am “denying consciousness.” Just whose “consciousness” am I denying? Not mine; I wrote what I thought and felt.

    If you mean that I am denying Nick and Nora’s consciousness, that would be impossible. I neither control, nor wish attempt to “control” anybody’s consciousness. I can offer up what I think; it is for individuals to decide whether it fits, or not.

    But I erred in believing that all comments were wanted. Only those in agreement were wanted.

    My daughter reminded me that she was villified, yes, “villified,” when at university because amidst numerous rapes, she took action to not only get blue lights and emergency phones installed on campus, but urged women to lock their doors. And so it goes…

    As what I have written has not furthered the discussion an iota, and, it seems to have caused strife, I would as soon have you delete all of my comments, including this one.

  22. “but I do think it would be fun if Eric could give his soulmates, that one couple he knows that have a happily monogamous marriage and everything else an interview too.”

    ::::laughing:::; I wouldn’t call Dave and I “soulmates” (I hate that word!) but longtime- happily married and happily monogamous couple…yep that’s us. Don’t know what you mean by “everything else” so I can’t answer that. But as you say, I doubt he has interest in us because we are not the direction he is going (and we are boring as catshit to anyone not interested in our lifestyle).

  23. You are so welcome, Nora, and if I didn’t make it completely clear before, I want to say again that I honor your courage and generosity in sharing your experience with us. I can see that you are truly a woman who loves men. Thank you so much. <3

  24. Thanks, Susyc! Our adventures continue and appear to be in perfect alignment with all this transformative Scorpion energy. I suspect Nick and I will be back with more adventures to share if the interest is there from people like yourself, in one form or another.

    PS The idea of Nick and Nora was taken from the series of Thin Man movies of the 1930’s staring my all time favorite actors William Powell and Myrna Loy.

  25. So, taking all this at face value, which I find is the best way to take things generally, until I have reason to know differently, which I don’t expect to in this situation, unless Eric interviews Nora again with new developments, it was fun to hear about a woman almost exactly my age enjoying herself. I thought it was funny that the fantasy started out with wanting another woman, and landing up instead with another man. This speaks to Nick’s flexibility and sense of fairness if you ask me. Nora hits the jackpot! It’s funny that only men showed up for Nick and Nora and only women (so far) have showed up for Eric to interview. It makes sense for me that living out a fantasy requires a ‘faceless’ person, and apparently there was one out there willing to respond, although Nora never called him ‘faceless,’ in fact, she called him a gentleman. Trying something new shouldn’t necessarily require more than that. I, for one, am happy that Eric went off the deep end and took this risk. Taking risks is how we grow, right? And I’ve been with PlanetWaves long enough to see growth in Eric as well as the fabulous team he has assembled. I’m happy Nora took the risk too and shared her experience with me. I’d love to see Nora have a little talk with my best girlfriend Lynn, a single woman who is still married to the idea of “the one” at age 60, which even I, a mildly ambivalent married woman of 30+ years sees as a waste of her current life experience in the sexual arena, although I think it must be affecting other arenas as well. I’d rather have IT, meaning sex, than not have it because of some fantasy of a soulmate arriving at this late date. Not that soulmates never happen, but I do think it would be fun if Eric could give his soulmates, that one couple he knows that have a happily monogamous marriage and everything else an interview too. But maybe that’s not his mission. There’s been plenty of press on that side of the aisle already because of societal bias. Maybe he’s speaking to the rest of us who want a little wiggle room, whether it’s fanning the flames of what we currently have, or stepping out of loyalty for loyalty’s sake, sexual deprivation now for financial security now and later, or whatever other reasons we give ourselves for sticking with a relationship form that does not satisfy including “Won’t someone PUHLEEZE just think of the children????” Meanwhile, I’ll be rooting for Nick and Nora (wasn’t there a detective duo of these names in some mystery series? Funny that Nick’s a detective…) to continue to enjoy each other and their future explorations. Hopefully some willing and able woman will show up soon to enlarge their experience.

  26. Alayne, I think that to say, “The manner in which the encounter occurred does not strike me as one that would strengthen anything in a relationship,…” is what I would call denying consciousness.

  27. no such thing as religion without authority
    & all authority is corruptible

    the flower is in the root
    and from the moment he began to gather ‘followers’
    it was a done deal

    “See not a single man,
    seated in the dark…”
    was the riddle I was given at age 18.

    Took about 10 years to solve it.

    no awakened one sees anyone as anything but awake
    that’s the job


  28. Huffy and Mysti, as a former monk, I love Krishnamurti. Thank you for sharing that link Huffy. The only thing I wanted to share was that I agree with “Buddha’s teachings were greatly distorted over the centuries, and buddhism became another wretched religion, based on control and fear.” While I love the Prajnaparamita sutra, I still have challenges bridging the gap between my desires and curiosity and a feeling of natural evolution or growth. Reiki has been crucial to my healing and transition. Letting go of this idea that desire is bad bad bad, wow, that is a lot of material to sort out.

  29. Yes, I see your point. Mysti. I don’t have the knowledge that you have here – but I think the original Buddha’s teachings were greatly distorted over the centuries, and buddhism became another wretched religion, based on control and fear.

  30. Um, Huffy, maybe *westernized* Buddhism doesn’t regard attachment (kama) with revulsion, but everything about how it has been taught between the 5th C BCE and the 9th C CE has very clearly set out guidelines to control and subdue it. (and including some parts of Tantric Buddhism – for cryin’ out loud).

    The Vinaya (rulebook) for monks/nuns and laypeople has a whole raft of proscriptions designed to clench back ‘attachment’ , the Vimalkirti Nirdesa, the Prajnaparamita, the Eight Precepts, the whole idea of breaking the Eleven chains of causality are based on repudiating desire. Fortunately Nagarjuna and Saraha and Lakshminkara set out in the 9th C to ameliorate the worst excesses of this teaching, but the work continues.

    “In the same way, where there is no passion for the nutriment of physical food… contact… intellectual intention… consciousness, where there is no delight, no craving, then consciousness does not land there or grow. Where consciousness does not land or grow, name-and-form does not alight. Where name-and-form does not alight, there is no growth of fabrications. Where there is no growth of fabrications, there is no production of renewed becoming in the future. Where there is no production of renewed becoming in the future, there is no future birth, aging, and death. That, I tell you, has no sorrow, affliction, or despair.”

    And what is the root (per this teaching)? Passion.
    From the Atthi Raga Sutra.

  31. Contrast this “Conversations,” with today’s “Beyond the Teasing Game,” which is moving, full of thought, and freeing. So I was blunt. Words — too many words — can be a convenient cloaking device. The “Christian Mingles,” comment was equally blunt, but, at least I didn’t resort to sarcasm.

    Alexander – It is unfortunate that you equate genuine safety concerns with propagandizing fear and promoting moral censure. My intention is not to play “tricks,” but to express genuine concern about taking tremendous risk solely in order to, ostensibly, broaden one’s sexual variety receptivity? Others have written about being sexually abused within their own circles. In 2012, children are still afraid to reveal sexual assaults. And, even more people are abused by strangers when in their teens.

    If people want an experiment, here’s one for y’all to try: walk hand-in-hand, or arm-in-arm, with whomever you’re walking, wherever you are. This used to be a common, unjudged sight.

    Nora – I wonder how it would have been had you been the one to receive the responses directly. I’m making no judgement – it’s so common a man’s fantasy that it has become cliche. An uncomfortable one, at that. And why should it be uncomfortable? Why should it be uncomfortable for a woman to wish to choose however she wishes to express her sexuality and sensuality?

    The manner in which the encounter occurred does not strike me as one that would strengthen anything in a relationship, save for the fact that you had an intense common experience, one that could be had without risk, and, without needing to find a “faceless” person with whom to do it. That you enjoyed the experience, and were safe, is just fine. It sounds lustful and, indeed, proved that breaking this particular ‘taboo’ didn’t cause the world to end. (Seinfeld episodes get mentioned here: I think of ‘George’ doing the opposite of what he would normally do and how that worked out so well for him).

    Why is my having a “strong reaction’ presumed to mean I condemn the act itself. (If that was a “strong reaction,” Honey, you ain’t seen many). But yes, I will “project” onto other women, and men, that going to Craigslist, or anywhere like that, in pursuit of a faceless, meaningless, person with whom to indulge in fantasy is dangerous. Again, there was no condemnation, here, although I am still grappling with the need for the “faceless” person, as well as it being at all meaningful whether you are a mother or grandmother, or a single person.

    I am never surprised at what I discover about myself. “Surprise,” no. “Wonder,” yes. I know that what I perceive about myself is less than an iggle in the complexity that is ‘Alayne’.

    It would have been interesting if Eric interviewed Nora and Nick separately.

    PS The reference to the Kama Sutra was a quick reaction to Nora’s “broad brush” statements about mothers/parents of the 1950s.

    Feh. Walk arm-in-arm.

  32. Eric and Nora, I really enjoyed your conversation .. Nora, I loved your bubbly openness and grounded clarity to continue to explore your sexuality into your 90’s. Your story is inspiring! Eric, your gracious hosting/interviewing skills continue to exceed. The mood and the container of the conversation felt intimate, safe, fun and funny~such a delight! WOW. It got me thinking about so many things! I am curious to hear more about this Love/trust delineation that you mentioned Eric. Thank you Nora/Nick and Eric! I look forward to the next one.

  33. (Huge sigh of relief…) “This Buddhist approach is psychologically infantile and presupposes that humans are, in the end, incapable of emotional self regulation. ”

    Thank you, thankyou thankyouthankyou, Alex… and may the Voidmother bless your attachments.

    But I don’t see a lot of ‘hostility’ to Eric’s experimentations, just some impatience.

  34. Eric, first of all, thank you for courageously opening up this space. Thanks to Nora for participating.

    I should say that Nora as a Reiki initiate of some standing is not really typical of your average Josephine Public in this arena! When folk are already linking their sexual practice to their spiritual ideology you aren’t truly getting representative feedback for the masses. I think that is important to point out!

    Alayne, while I can appreciate your safety concerns, it seems to me that those are.. well.. safety concerns and should be addressed appropriately in given situations with respect to concrete particulars, rather than painted with broad brush strokes as being collective property, when in fact adults have to do their risk assessments. To acknowledge otherwise is to propagandize fear and promote moral censure as rebuke.. the oldest trick in the ‘religious’ book. I think Eric’s subjective material DOES drive the debate but welcome to the human condition.. we need to debate in constructive rather than dismissive ways.. so yes, your issues may be different to Eric’s in this arena but we can hold awareness of that I think.

    Eric, on this point of both trust and attachments vs real love, trust is really of the same school of attached thinking as much of the love stuff. Many make trust a pre-condition for relationship and frankly that is usually morality holding a gun to someone’s head, under guise of some contractual view of adult relating, where really it is insecurity speaking. I don’t think most folk could accept replacing love with trust etymologically if the same insecurities are running the show.. and if they aren’t, why is trust required?

    Now, I DO believe trust is important but that is because this whole attachment/love dyad represents a false split in my view. Psychological attachment theory is different to Buddhist ideology in this area and I think the word “attachment” should be clarified in any debate re its precise contextual usage. The view that attachment is bad or somehow inferior on a Buddhist view would also carry the notion that desire per se is bad (and for the same reason that it cements an emotional bond that creates an expectation, that may be later thwarted and thus create suffering). This Buddhist approach is psychologically infantile and presupposes that humans are, in the end, incapable of emotional self regulation. Even though human bonds do seed attachment signatures when bonding the overall process should really be one of learning to live in grey areas, rather than resorting to shutting down and reducing all to good/bad or safe/unsafe which basically means whole personhood gives way to fragmentation. It is pushing our boundary that matters. As a personal thing there can be no fixed template for this. As such, I read your efforts in this area more as an incentive to shrink back from comfort in sacred cows, rather than some prescriptive mandate for specific ‘alternative’ practices.. which is where many seem to read you as being at!

    Maybe you could mitigate these misunderstandings in others by noticing the distinction between your live stuff and the prevalent issues of our times? They overlap considerably, and while I know you are aware, they are not co-terminus. I do remain flabergasted, that said, by the amount of hostility this work engenders.. so clearly you are doing much more “right” than “wrong”. Thanks again and let us hope some male input emerges.

  35. Maybe they’ve updated the Kama Sutra recently, but the last time I looked at it it wasn’t really that sexy. It’s actually full of rules.

  36. The reason we used CI (Craigslist) was because we wanted the third party to be someone we did not know and would not see again. You are right that one has to be extremely careful, however, Nick happens to be a private investigator and carefully screened all responses. He also forwarded them all to me. I made the ultimate decision as to who the person would be. I also spoke to the gentleman by phone before making a decision. Safe sex practices were also used.

    To make the blanket statement that it had to have been the man’s idea smacks of a bit judgmental don’t you think? Are you saying that women would never entertain such a thought themselves? Both Nick and I had many discussions about our erotic experience prior to putting up the ad on CL. I can assure you, it was a mutual decision. I was neither pressured nor cajoled into it. At any time, either one of us could have said no, and it would not have been a big deal.

    This may be hard for some to understand, but even though there was a third party involved, it was never about them. This experience was always about Nick and Nora and their big adventure. As I believe I mentioned in our conversion, this experience actually brought us closer together. That being said, this adventure is not for everybody. It’s important to have a strong sense of self and a partner that you trust explicitly. I’m fortunate to have both. 😉

    I would suggest to anyone out there who has a strong reaction to this story to perhaps reflect on what they are feeling and why it is bringing up such a strong emotional response within themselves rather than projecting that on to others. You might be surprised at what you discover about yourself.


  37. The Sun passing through my 5th squares my 9th house Aquarius Saturn. For a few weeks a year, I become creatively daring, take a few extra risks, and push the limits on that Saturn, who is a somewhat formal guy.

    I would say that all methods of meeting people are equally safe or dangerous depending on one’s use of their wits and discernment. However I think that Christian Mingle is absolutely 100% risk free.

  38. Absolutely insane to advertise for sexual partners on CL. And cloaking sexual encounters one has always wondered about under the guise of spirituality or being la goddess doesn’t seem very genuine or comfortable at all. Seems like same old…same old… Big clue here, that no women responded. (Good for them). Or, (I may have missed this), did you see all the responses to the ad yourself?

    It’s great to give ourselves permission to do a host of things we had thought were too daring, or whatever, but not at risk to ourselves – physical risk. Surely, both of you know enough people that you could have taken the risk of asking one of them if they were interested? But CL?

    Yet again, sensuality and varied sexual experience – and this was the man’s idea, right? – get buried under some kind of pretense.

    Regarding what mothers taught during the 1950s – different mothers taught different things,(or not), and some even had a copy of the kama sutra on the bookshelf.

    Eric – you always go off the deep end this time of year. What IS the problem?

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