I cannot believe that the “news” is still worried about this kind of thing, opr that the police even bother embarrassing themselves this way. I’m sitting here looking at these newscasters thinking: there is no way in God’s creation that neither of them has visited a prostitute. The funny thing is, so many men have; yet I know so few who would admit it. I think that in the name of consistency, The Law ought to step in and ban dating.
Who is it that actually objects to prostitution, and why? Why can we offer any other personal resource for sale, such as our blood plasma or mind, but you cannot legally offer any form of trade for sex?
“DESPERATE BLONDE NEEDS WS TIX (Philadelphia)
“Diehard Phillies fan — gorgeous tall buxom blonde– in desperate need of two World Series Tickets. Price negotiable — I’m the creative type! Maybe we can help each other!”
Please, i want to underline Eric’s point about “exploitation of the differences”. One of the greatest Americans of all time, the late, great Bayard Rustin said over and over and over “all people are one”. One way or the other, we ARE going to find out Mr. Rustin was correct. Which way is it going to be, folks?
I’m just gonna sing a song, it’s easier.. “and in the end, the Love you take, is equal to the Love, you made..”
“Her majesty’s a pretty nice girl, but she doesn’t have a lot too say. Her majesty’s a pretty nice girl but she changes from day to day. I wanna tell her that I Love her a lot but I’ve gotta get a belly full of wine. Her majesty’s a pretty nice girl, some day I’m gonna make her mine, oh yeah, some day I’m gonna make her mine.”
When does none of this shit matter? Boys, girls? Let’s all wake up, ok?!? It’s on the tip of OUR/YOUR/YOU/I/ME/MINE’s tongue…. Fuck man, I almost give up. It’s just too tough to spit it out, only too be ignored. Right there.. in front.. Jesus freakin’ christ! (All’s well, just venting!)
Freedom,
Jere
Hi Franny, I would say that is a perspective worthy of passing along on Planet Waves. Thank you. I would say that the sexes have more in common than not; and that the exploitation of the differences is one of our most pressing issues of this time in history.
I would add that the gender discussion is relevant, for two reasons. One, it’s hotly politicized and one of the deepest facets of ego conditioning. Men and women function under several different sets of rules. Gender rage and the sense of betrayal are among the most pressing issues of our day. We can look at them different ways or we can define the themes accessibly as gender-related; either way it will amount to the same growth.
The second reason is we spend so much time projecting our “opposite” or nondominant inner polarity onto the opposite sex. I think it’s possible to integrate that inner polarity without losing the innate pleasures and privileges of one’s biological sex, but it’s more complex than most people think, and in my experience in a helping role, one of the most challenging growth areas of our day.
Sell yourself. Your ideals, ideas, body,.. it doesn’t matter. It’s all the same freakin’ sheisse. Just, be cool with yourself. Don’t be excited that you’ve annihilated 6,000,000 people,.. That’s not cool. Be excited that you’ve been given the opportunity too experience life, and the Pleasure it has too offer.
Prostitution, I’ll vaguely touch the subject, from a personal standpoint. It makes me physically ill when a person of, otherwise healthy demeanor, engages in acts of sexuality that they ‘feel’ degrades themselves. I’m talkin’ street-walking, AND marriage here, as well as ‘relationship’ (dating, or whatever). Prostitution is a major, all-encompassing categorical conversation that we here, now, have the opportunity too examine, within our own lives, and come to grips with Where we’re at, personally.
I haven’t fucked anyone who was not a friend. The first gal I was with, at 15, I had just met that day, we had sex for three years. I love her, and still have contact with to this day (she’s the only person from my past that I still have contact with). As mentioned earlier by another, I emotionally connect with sex. Not only emotionally, but energetically. I ‘feel’ the transfer of energy at a very palpable level, not ‘just’ an orgasm, but a connection akin to karma. I ‘can’t’ screw around with anyone I’m not ‘friends’ with. And I can’t befriend just anyone (if one’s cool, potentially sexy. If one’s hot, And cool, totally sexy. If one’s hot and not cool, not in this lifetime. I wouldn’t engage for anything. I’ve better things to do with my time). I’ve been two years, april 05 to april 07, without sex. No big deal. Not a necessity in my reality (I’ve got way too much other shit, like me, to deal with, thank buddha for masturbation). Present time, it’s been 13 months without, (First and only trois, only time I’ve ever touched a dick that wasn’t mine. Was cool, except that I wasn’t cool with the ‘porn’ mentality of the other dude, he didn’t care/Love, I don’t kick-it with the dude anymore. I’m still friends with the gal.)
Basically, what I’m sayin’ is.. experience what you please. Do what/who you want, live your life, accept where you’ve been (in a healthy positive capacity),. Be yourself, fuck all the judgement and b.s. that other, fear-ridden repressed mofo’s shout out. You’re unfolding your reality as you go along. (Hey!, just don’t lie to yourself. Be honest with you. Figure out where you’re at, and then do it up. {It’s a beautiful life and there’s way too much shit to engage in..}). Be Kind, and Love Yourself.
Peace,
Jere
Franny, what is the goal on the relationship wherein we are determining whether he really likes you? I.e., the objective? How long is the relationship presumed to last, and what are the conditions?
I think with an underlying goal of marriage or some exclusively pair-bonded situation, and more significantly, no alternatives to that being widely known much less accepted, we are having one conversation. If we are talking about something with options, we are talking about another one.
Also – I would raise a flag here about women being the only ones who have to make sure that men care about them. Are you implying that women are those more perfectly suited to love, and who love the better, and that men are the ones more suited to take advantage? Or do we see this running in about six directions with as many agendas?
I think this is the appropriate topic to share this story. A few months back I attended a rocking concert with the tickets provided by my brother-in-law. Now he has helped me out financially over the last few years never asking for anything in return. He brought a client to the show as he sometimes does,( gotta keep the corporates happy). This client made me the object of his affection and although I was flattered, the feeling wasn’t mutual. However, I sensed that my brother-in-law wanted him entertained so as if in a play, I put on a geisha persona and so it went. Am I ashamed, absolutely not. I did what came natural to me. I knew my brother-in-law was relieved and appreciative, his client appeared content and I felt thankful that I could return the kindness that has been bestowed upon me. Bartering is so much more creative!
I’ve been reading these posts with interest and while I believe that a “sex for hire” contract between consenting ADULTS is no one’s business but their own, I have recently come to understand that prostitution is very seldom just that. Many times it involves slavery, coercion, and young girls or young boys. these children are not old enough to consent and are manipulated by adults who I think should be taken somewhere and shot.
As to the “we are all whores in some way or another” mentality, I thoroughly disagree with that. I’ve been around a long time, long enough to have been cognizant of the Sexual Revolution as it was coming in, living through it’s hey day and lamenting it’s loss when it was over. Observations: If a woman wants a healthy, loving, committed relationship with a man it would be best for her to wait a bit until he shows her that he really likes and wants her. Is it right? Maybe, maybe not. Is it fair? Hell no! Is it real? Yes.
Anytime a man tells me that he’s not paying for sex, he is telling me two things:
1. He doesn’t value my company, and so resents the fact that he needs to pay for movie tickets, popcorn, whatever.
2. All he wants is pussy or a blowjob, and is not interested in me as a person. Worse yet, he might just want some pussy and not necessarily my pussy.
I learned long ago that I am one of those women who is unable to avoid the emotional attachment aspect of sexual activity, I have learned to avoid those types of men. And no, it doesn’t really help a woman to ask a guy out and offer to pay for him, because then you are seen as desperate. Now, that is not fair but unfortunately that’s how guys are wired. It’s taken me all of my life to accept that. I’m an Aries Sun/Aries Venus, Moon in Leo and I love being the aggressor. It has never worked for me. The men with whom I have had the most loving, most enduring relationships (one has lasted 29 years) have always been those who took the initiative and kept it. And yes, that means that I was not all that interested in them at first and they courted me. Many of these men started out as admirers I had no interest in, and so they had to work to get some. Those I jumped into the sack with immediately? Because I wanted to and they wanted to? Here today, gone tomorrow. those I chased? Most, I did not get (and I am not now, nor have I ever been, hard to look at). And those I met halfway, even my live in “husbands”, including the father of my son, felt that because I made more and could pay more, then their responsibility toward me and toward the household was absolved as long as they gave up some dick (which I soon did not want, as I can’t fuck a man I don’t respect). It is a rare man who can accept, respect, and love a woman he doesn’t have to pursue and woo.
I believe Steve Harvey when he says a man in love will profess, protect, and provide. that’s not prostitution. That’s biology.
There are a bunch of interesting relationships between sex and money; skipping for now the dating game, which can actually be an honest form of prostitution where both parties enjoy the sex. The problem with conventional prostitution, even for example Amsterdam-styled at its best, is you don’t expect the practitioner to enjoy the sexual aspect of her role. If you seduce a sexworker, that’s what you seduce her into: having a little fun, even though you’ve paid. Most of the ladies working this profession that I’ve known do not like the ‘sex aspect’ of the work. It is difficult for them to offer from such personal resources and some have admitted that it does interfere with their personal relationships.
In the United States, those of us who have offered sex workshops of any kind know about the phenomenon of the money making it okay. It is literally the purchasing of an indulgence, and we feel better for that. The ubiquitous guilt factor here in the western world is somehow transmuted by a conference fee.
Advertising that pushes sex over substance works a similar way, by enticing someone to allay their guilt about sex in the form of purchasing not sex but a car sold flaunting sex. In a market economy, if you pay for it, it’s okay; if it makes money, it’s okay.
We could well ask why prostitution is an exception to the capitalist “if it sells, it’s good” rule. It may point to the underlying sexism of the culture; that women, so long considered the chattel of men, are nor really their own to sell. Among women, there may be fear that if prostitution is widely available, especially of a higher quality experience, that will take away an emotional manipulative power that women can wield using sex; and it will drive down the price of sex on their side of the racket. Susie Bright was the first to point this out to me – that one promiscuous girl on a college dorm floor can drive down the presumed price of marriage and that is why she’s unlikely to be tolerated.
I think Marx said a thing or two about this – how in a capitalist economy, eventually everything is commodified. We are now seeing the body itself commidified by an insurance industry that fights to make sure that people get sick and/or die sooner as a result of being denied care. It’s really weird that the health care system is established in many ways to do the opposite.
I may be way behind the times here, as I hear that now among young people sex is a throwaway item. It’s something you just kinda get from someone. This ties into what happened at the homecoming dance incident.
More like, the sex war comes home.
The girls I know who were prostitutes did it out of desperation for drug money. The walking dead and just teenagers. There was an exception – a girl we grew up with was gorgeous and ended up as a high paid call girl with one customer in Brazil. He was someone she met in a club. She got rich, but she wasn’t happy.
I do not mind men pretending they do not go to pros It tends to put me off sleeping with them if I know Because it raises a lot of questions in my mind about his way of looking at women and his care of his body so I think yuk – PASS And men know that There’s pros and pros The ones who wear high boots and hang around in the street so they can pay for a hit and the ones in luxury apartments who only see rich men and all sorts of other varieties between so you cannot really lump them all together and say whether it is okay or not It all depends where the women is at. Probably beats working in the supermarket.
Clarification, Fuck-jobs= Assholes/dickheads/pieces of shit. Dirty bastards you want nothing to do with. The folk that just plain eat shit.
Media cats are screwed from head to toe. Yeah, they’re all perves and … I’ve got worse too say.
..but I won’t. Not this time.
All these cats are begging for a little food. They’re short on soul. They require beings that can display a common sense of decency. A love they’ve never known. Something that isn’t usery. Something that allows them too open up to the fact that they are creation at its peak.
I will never ‘pay’ for sex, but I am always checking our heads for the the realm that exists in freedom of sexual expression. Our Right, is to be with who we want, when we want, and HOW we want. This belongs to every individual.
The world is big. There are many facets that are, quite disturbing.
I will continue on as a decent fellow, still realizing the fuck-jobs, and try to make THIS place a little better.
LOVE YA,
Beautifuls…
Jere
human trafficking! sorry but prostitution is not always so simple as sex for sale.
I do not object to prostitution. It should be legal and safe. Anyone should have access to sex if they need it or want it, including women.
I agree Belle that exchanging sex as a commodity for something, whether in the form of a relationship or not, devalues the beauty and eroticism of sex. But, that statement is my PERSONAL belief and I don’t see it as societies place to tell people what to do. Both are consenting adults. Society now a days seems so concerned with what goes on in someone’s bedroom. Of telling people (consenting adults) what is acceptable and unacceptable sexually, when that should only be between the participants. Maybe it’s the Aquarian in me that gets my knickers in a twist when the establishment tries to tell consenting adults, who aren’t hurting anyone else, what to do.
And if prostitution (where both sides are consenting and not under any kind of duress from pimps, etc) is so bad – what about strip clubs? Just because they claim sex doesn’t occur, then it’s ok just to look and not touch. By the standards that prostitution is degrading – isn’t then strip clubs and porn also degrading and horrible and should be banned? And if porn is banned then what about naked photos of people who consent to have their photos taken naked? Sure they aren’t engaged in the act of sex, but it seems to me to be a very slippery slope. Where do we draw the line at what is okay and not okay? Seems to me it’s a matter of personal opinion, taste and values as opposed to our country setting the rules. (And yes, of course I want the government/society to make sure pimps don’t put girls under their iron thumb and basically turn them into sex slaves, or any of the other scenarios where people get hurt.) But, I don’t need my government holding my hand in my sex life and I don’t want it holding the hand of other consenting adults, just because other individuals have other sexual preferences. Ok, my Aquarian Moon and Rising and Ceres are all satisfied now. 🙂 And no offense meant to anyone else’s opinion – I definitely respect everyone’s different view points!
How about all those girls who date a guy (and yes they have sex), not because they love them, feel close to them, have compassion for each other, or even are having a strictly sexual relationship, but because the guy pays for things for them (dinner, movies, parties, even buying them nice gifts). Isn’t that in some ways exchanging sex (and maybe some kind of image) for something?
On a tangent, saw a news article on sex addiction. It claimed sex addiction was the number one addiction in the United States. Made me sick to hear sex devalued and reduced to some kind of disease. I personally don’t really buy into the sex addiction. Seems to me that there are underlying issues going on and that the person is trying to dodge them by claiming to be a sex addict. I have read a number of articles on sex addiction and have yet to be able to find any evidence that there is ACTUALLY a biological addiction going on. (In other addictions like alcohol people do have a chemical imbalance that makes them unable to have one or two drinks and stop. My brother is a recovering alcoholic, so I know this addiction all to well.) And it seems very convenient for our country, that already has issues seeing sex as a wonderful thing, to be able to start placing sex in the “bad” or “you shouldn’t have too much of this” category. What’s up next – sex prohibition?
I mean really, haven’t we all been “prostitutes” at some point. I remember quite vividly sitting at the estrogen round table, speaking of the various “ahem”services we have provided for our significant other for something we might need or want. (we had some good laughs over some of them!) Its amazing the double standards we have incorporated as law. I guess I’m as guilty as she is.