By Sarah Taylor
The Eight of Cups has been significant in its repeated appearances for me over these past weeks — both in this column and in my readings. Therefore, given this and requests to devote more articles to the detailed study of a selected tarot card, I thought I would give the Eight of Cups what it seems to be asking for: a closer look.
Having said that, this week I am going to step back and put the spotlight on you, dear readers. Yes, it’s your chance to explore the Eight of Cups and what you make of it. I have chosen three versions of the card — two from ‘classic’ decks (ones that often form the staple of a tarot reader’s arsenal), the other one from a deck that is hot off the press:
The Rider-Waite Smith Tarot, created and illustrated by Pamela Colman Smith with the guidance of A E Waite — a deck that you should be very familiar with now, if you’re a regular visitor to this column
The Thoth Tarot, created by Aleister Crowley and painted by Lady Frieda Harris
The Mary-El Tarot, created and painted by artist Marie White
All three are very different in style, tone and approach, which I hope helps to get your imaginations moving into exploratory mode.
I offer up a few things for you to consider:
– What do the three cards hold in common, if anything? How is that meaningful to you?
– What are the contrasts that pique your attention? Why is your attention piqued?
– How do the style and colours used work with the subject matter?
– What draws you? What repels you? Write out your thoughts — stream-of-consciousness (i.e. just writing what comes to you, uncensored) can be very helpful here.
– Pick out one detail in each card that feels like the ‘key to the image’. Are you able to articulate why you feel this is so?
– If you feel so inclined, refer to the latest Weekend Tarot Reading from 29 April and take a look at the Eight of Cups in the context of the other two cards. Do other dimensions reveal themselves to you in it? Does something pull into focus? If so, does that shift or clarify the reading for you?
Finally, I am including two excerpts from accompanying books to the Thoth Tarot and the Mary-El Tarot, namely Tarot: Mirror of the Soul, a seminal Thoth resource written by Gerd Ziegler, and The Mary-El Tarot: Landscapes of the Abyss by creator Marie White. These offer specific perspectives, and I would feel free to discard them if they feel irrelevant to your own explorations. (The book that accompanies the RWS deck feels like an afterthought given the richness and depth of the deck, and I am leaving it out.)
Mary-El Tarot
“Here Hercules’ lion skin is draped over a young and innocent child to symbolize that Strength or Fortitude is due to an open heart and lack of bitterness. The 8 is a mirror and the outside world reflects the inside world. The best way to overcome obstacles at this junction is to keep your heart open and be true to your self and overcome the fear that would normally cause you to shut down and guard your heart. Wear truth and love like an impenetrable and radiant shield.”
Thoth Tarot
“You have already wasted enough of your energy on people who give nothing in return. You have filled them with your energy, but they were like bottomless barrels. You feel empty and sucked dry. This painting speaks of an interpersonal situation in which the river of energy has stagnated. The more you try to revitalize a relationship which has fallen into a rut, the more powerless and empty you will feel. Any attempt to re-energize the other will dissipate your energies further, without achieving any results.
Indications: It’s time you consider yourself, set some limits, and say ‘No’. It may be an old behavior pattern to always direct your love toward people from whom nothing comes in return. This may be a sign indicating your fears of accepting love.”
See you in the comments section!
— Sarah
If you want to experiment with tarot cards and don’t have any, we provide a free tarot spread generator using the Celtic Wings spread, which is based on the traditional Celtic Cross spread. This article explains how to use the spread.
ClumsyCrab – Thanks for your comments! Just to respond to a few of them as they came up …
I would go with your heart regarding the Eight of Cups as it pertains to your new relationship. I don’t think it has a blanket meaning for all relationships; tarot is much more nuanced than that. Outcome cards are often problematic because it is hard, once knowing them, to stay present with what’s going on now. Perhaps trust that when and if it does come up you will know what it is about and what to do.
As for its being bad luck buying your own decks, I don’t agree with that. I love the process of finding a deck that ‘speaks’ to me from a shelf in a shop. If someone bought one for me, I would find that equally meaningful. I think you do what suits you.
Funny – I’ve also had that White Snake song in my head recently, but I would prefer to go down a new road. So I pay it little mind and move on. 🙂
As someone with Leo Sun, and with two close girl friends with Leo Suns, I can attest to that nurturing quality and loyalty. I get that from them when I need it. One of them in particular I retreat to in times when I need support – her home is a haven, she is a fabulous cook and a clucky mother hen in that respect, and a raucously funny, fun and insightful woman. We have such a good time together – then again, two lionesses can co-exist pretty well.
Wow. Sarah, thank you for your continued spotlight on the eight of cups.
I’m new to interpreting cards and enjoy the process of feeling out the symbolism.
That said, I did a reading for myself this afternoon, and wouldn’t you know my outcome card was the
Eight of cups? I suppose this isn’t surprising given my situation in cutting all ties with my ex
As well as some other friends and objects of my affection, but then this makes it
Difficult to interpret if this moving on includes my new relationship, as well.
There were lots of cups in my spread and the overall tone was very positive and encouraging (and ambitious, even!)
I have a friend who has always read my cards for me, and he’s very kind, but I feel sometimes his opinion gets a little in the way of his readings for me and also, he means well, but he can be a bit on the shallow side of things sometimes. He believes it’s bad luck for one to buy their own tarot deck. Is that a commonly held belief?
It seems a bit superstitious to me.
As for this card in particular, every time I see it in the traditional deck with the man walking away, I hear White Snake playing in my head. “Here I go again on my own. Going down the only road I’ve ever known.” But he’s gotta go alone if he wants to find love again. The latter deck is so esoteric. Without the literal cups the feeling is very different. But I will say, if you have ever owned cats or have been cared for by Leo friends for that matter, you may know what it means to be in the care of feline-like virtues. When kitty sees that you’re upset, she/he goes into that mode of simultaneous nurturing and vigilant protection. The love of a lion is courageously honest and loal, and it also won’t settle for less than the best for himself and those in his care. That’s what I see when I look at the image, but you know- even in the classic deck, our traveling friend isn’t completely alone. That moon is watching him very closely. She’s shedding a light on his path. He looks more alone than he really is.
I love the Classic Golden Dawn card you’ve linked to, Charles. There’s something really engaging about its simplicity and symmetry. And there is the Ace again – being held by the hand emanating from the cloud, as per the Ace in the RWS deck.
I have enjoyed this conversation with you all immensely. Thank you! 🙂
Nice, Sarah. I didn’t think of that cup as an Ace, but then, all those undulating stems come from under it, including the two lotus flowers that are the source of the pouring water. It is sort of the source of all this Cups action. Perhaps we have drained the cup. Golden Dawn Cups cards always have long stemmed flowers pouring water into cups, I have no idea what that’s all about. I found an interesting Classic Golden Dawn 8C, it’s an unpainted DIY card. It’s very odd (literally) with a 3-1-1-3 pattern, and the bottom center cup is full, giving us 5 filled cups. There’s that 3 on 5 pattern again, like the RWS card.
http://spoogle.us/~tsuzuki/images/cups08.jpg
Interesting for me too, to inspect the Saturn in Pisces thing. I’m coming to know Saturn as my friend, or perhaps rather – impassionate guardian. (Neptune and Jupiter I suppose are more like my fishy “friends ” in both work and play.) Even more interesting then, for this eight of cups to present itself now.
yes – all the cups seem to have “lips” too – at first appearing to be broken rims but after inspecting all, there is a pattern to the lips on the cup rims – the conduits for water flow – as well.
Lest we not notice, subtle as it is, the Ace remains?
Thanks. I didn’t mean to go into such depth, but the Thoth card in particular is so rich in symbolism. These significant details are easy to overlook. For example, I just noticed, all the Cups have broken handles except the empty one in the bottom center.
I echo aword’s sentiments, Charles – your comments don’t feel like a derailment at all to me. In fact, you’ve added dimensions.
Charles, thanks so much for sharing what you see especially in the Toth; the arrangement, water flow, math…I saw it there but backed away from spending the time to figure out the puzzle. I appreciate your showing me — like being shown that crossword puzzles aren’t confusing if you take them a word at a time.
Thx!
The 8C Thoth and RWS cards are perfect for showing some of these geometric and numeric ideas. The Thoth card obviously has some very specific geometric symbolism, but it is fairly impenetrable, I wish I knew more about it. But the RWS geometry is hidden out in plain sight, you might not even see it unless you looked for it.
I apologize for going on at such length. I often feel it’s rude to write a comment that is longer than the original blog post. But I am having a Mercury Return so this commentary sort of zapped itself out in just a moment. At least I had the sense to wait until more people commented, I don’t want to totally derail the discussion.
Charles – Some truly enlightening observations there. I was engrossed reading it. It goes to show just how rich the symbolism is when you spend some time with it — a latticework of meanings that join to form a structured narrative. Thank you!
I am not much of a fan of cards like the Mary-El 8C. It doesn’t have any Cups, so it doesn’t seem like Cups at all. And I’m a Leo ascendant so I will bring too much baggage to this card. Wearing the skin of a dead lion? Does she expect to pass herself off as a lion amidst other lions? Perhaps she really will end up inside a lion. No, she just wants to present the lion energy to other people. A lion skin is not a cloak, that fiery Leo energy comes from within, it has to be more than skin deep.
What stands out to me in cards like the RWS and Thoth is the geometric arrangement of the cups. The Thoth arrangement is full of esoteric Golden Dawn geometry, some of it relates to geomancy (too rich for my blood) and some of it comes from the traditional geometric arrangement of unadorned “pips” on playing cards. The thing to note here is that there is one pair of cups overflowing into another pair of cups, while another set of four cups is empty. There is a pair of lotus flowers pouring water into a pair of cups that then overflows into another pair below them. And there is a row of 3 empty cups at the top, and a single empty cup at the bottom, between the filled ones. Since water flows down, we can read this top to bottom, 3-2-3, which is a somewhat symmetrical arrangement, but still strangely odd-even-odd. This somewhat emphasizes the oddness within the even 8. Also we start at the top with empty cups, in the middle the water pours forth, but then at the bottom only 2 of the 3 cups are partially filled, leaving the odd cup unfilled. The two middle cups are overflowing back into the water, purposelessly, while the lower cups are barely filling. There is a sense of insufficiency here, the key word of Indolence perhaps suggests insufficient effort, or perhaps insufficient results from our feelings. They pour forth but produce little. Also the background is very interesting. The undulating, dark, stormy clouds give a sense of gloom, and the water seems to ripple slightly, suggesting that the cups, top heavy on their lotus leaves, may be upset by even a slight ripple of the water’s surface. There is some interesting Air-Water action happening here, with the clouds up high in the air, and also the 3 top cups supported high above the water’s surface. Perhaps our thinking (Air) is interfering with our feelings (water), or perhaps our feelings and emotions originate secondarily, after our thoughts. You can see the simple geometry of the Thoth cups is speaking a complex language, and I think the Cups are probably more complex in this regard than the other suits.
Now the RWS card is also interesting. There is a row of 3 cups stacked on a row of 5 cups. You can also break down the top row into the group of 2 and the single cup. Notice that the 3 and 5 also emphasizes the odd within the even 8. This also seems to refer to the 5C and the 3C, and further breaking down the 3C into the 2C and the Ace. The comparison to the 5C is particularly interesting. The 5C has a similar arrangement of two groups of cups. Both cards show water dividing the land, but in the 5, the person stands on the near side of the land, amidst the cups, while in the 8, he has crossed the water and stands on the other side, away from the cups. This strengthens the feeling that the 8 has moved on, he has separated himself from the scene. Now also the 5C is a somewhat tragic scene, the person is focusing on what he has lost, turning his back to the pair of cups that remain upright. In the 8, the man has his back turned to the whole set of cups, the emotions and feelings are externalized. Now also consider the top row of Cups, referencing the 3C, the 2C, and the Ace. I won’t go into detail but those cards all seem positively dripping with joy and potential for the future. Considering the pair of the Ace and 2C seems to suggest great potential for a an emotional relationship and deep engagement. The 3C suggests we may become so enmeshed in that joyous relationship we can’t separate our feelings from others. But with the overall sense of the card, I get a feeling of loss, of moving on from an unstable, unbalanced emotional situation. We must move on from the tragedy of the 5C to get to the joy and new potential of the 3, 2 and Ace of Cups.
Maria! Awesome verse. I love how the sparseness of it and the word choices reinforce each other so well, and as in all good poetry and tarot you hit the holographic!
Thank you, Alexander. We might not be able to change that cyclical nature as simply as we can change our perspective of it … and even that perspective will be subject to its own cycles, where we go into self-blame and doubt, then have the courage of our convictions, only to lose it again to self-blame, then to find it again. Life: a process of hide and seek. 🙂
Agreed Sarah.. if we see everything as an opportunity for maturation then sticking points and keep falling into the same hole become less a basis for self denigration and more a persistent reminder to expose our blindspots and learn different responses based on all we discover. It is great really that your column gives folk the scope to explore just such themes on such a regular and consistent basis.. 🙂
I would also add that any tarot card that makes repeat appearances reflects the nature of our own repeated experiences. Sometimes we have to go through several incarnations of the same thing in one lifetime in order to effect change. That is the cyclical nature of existence.
With the Eight of Cups, we might need to have time away to contemplate several times over before our psyche ‘gets it’ enough to make different, hopefully more healthy, choices.
We could see these repetitions as ‘getting it wrong’. I prefer to see them as ‘getting things right’.
Green-Star-gazer — And, goodness, haven’t we had a fair whack of lunar influence of late?! Agreed, the last image was immediately counterintuitive to me, but it does fit with the corresponding major arcana ‘8’ card, Strength. It also has elements of The Hermit, interestingly enough – the star on the child’s hand and the staff. Wearing a cat’s fur is strong medicine, as far as I know, and perhaps the message here is the one conveyed in the written description: that the need to walk away might bring us low, but the admonition is not to close down our hearts, but to open up to the pain. Well, I know that one personally anyway, and it has been a good lesson for me.
I do a small number of readings for others with the Thoth, and the Eight of Cups has come up in a reading for someone else, and a reading someone did for me several years ago. Both circumstances were associated with the ending of long-term relationships, though in my case, the advent of the Eight of Cups was the first time I was really brought face-to-face with what was going on in my life in the most uncompromising way. The Thoth is not a deck that buggers around; it gets right to the point, and, yes, the Eight of Cups can be a bitter pill to swallow. As you say, it also serves as a head’s up to keep aware of motive at all time, and where you create indolence in your life. The upshot of that is that it is absolutely in our hands to re-establish flow and life; that, I feel, is the card’s main message. It might be an uncomfortable card to look at, but it does offer a way through – and if you look at the following Cups cards in the deck, they are testament to what happens when energy flow and harmony are restored.
maria — Would that I could write poetry like you! Sublimely spare and resonant. Thank you for that so much!
abc123 — Wishing you inner strength to guide you until the Sun re-emerges.
aword — And thank *you* for your observations! Yes, with Crowley the gloves come off. Sometimes, though, I feel the best way to tell it is with flesh bared.
indranibe — I agree that appeasement is one motivation in chasing love in all the wrong places. However, I can see what Gerd Ziegler meant too: we often unconsciously seek out relationships where love is not returned because they are a reflection of our own inability to love ourselves, and therefore others. Relationship as mirror.
Many of us are, or have been, fearful of accepting love because inherent in that is a fear of surrender and a loss of control; and because at some point in our lives it was demonstrated to us that we were unworthy of that love, or that any love that we had would leave us. You’re right, imo — many people don’t know what love is because of their experiences of what they have been told ‘love’ is — or how that ‘love’ has been demonstrated to them.
The Mary-El Tarot’s lesson is lovely, isn’t it? That is the antidote to the ’emptied out’ feeling that the Eight of Cups also brings with it.
While I can understand where you’re coming from when you say we should be very careful with the Crowley deck, I disagree. The more I work with the Thoth, the more I see its often uncompromising viewpoint as one that is well worth embracing sometimes. I’d also add that it is incisive, but that blade cuts both ways, and the beauty inherent in many of the cards is equally breathtaking. Interestingly, the male clients that I have worked with tend to prefer it to any of the other decks that I offer them.
Alexander — You nailed it: the Crowley deck is about shadow work. When I have an adverse reaction to one of the cards, it is an invitation to go deeper — and this deck shines a light into those depths with conviction. Few other tarot decks achieve this in my own personal work.
Slight aside here but in light of the recent ‘Thresholder’ emphasis: My feeling is that Crowley was such; particularly in terms of him helping folk (particularly those moralistic Victorians) transition the “depravity drama” that his contemporary, Nietzsche, attributed to Christian theology of ‘The Fall’. In a sense, this was a radical point of departure that tore the grip of purity away from religion and transvaluated such moralistic values as the true depravity.
For me, this is why Thoth stands apart. There is psychological ‘gold potential’ to mine and it is why I disagree with you indranibe when you fundamentally problematize Crowley. Specifically, your first example can be viewed in a much different light than a reinterpretation in terms of an exploitation dynamic. The interpretation you question the logic of is psychologically rich and intuitive in my view. It seems to me that it highlights a psychological deficit where a more infantile or narcissistic type of love is experienced/sought that has characteristics more of fantasy/idealism than real love. Such a person would not be able to recognise, and therefore would reject, the real deal – because of it failing to be ‘pure’ enough (the narcissistic drug).
Thoth offers an entry point into a deeper maturity of intterpretation that sees clearly the shadow which humans must extricate from. Don’t be surprised if your own shadow lurks once reading that deck – which is surely a wonderful opportunity!
Sorry, one more thing re: that Thoth thing I was talking about: another point – it’s not a fear of love – it’s that most people don’t know what “love” is – or feels like – how can they? If they were trained in the abuser/appeaser “method” – they wouldn’t have a clue, would they? “Fear of acceptance” suggests a “conscious” decision – something akin to self-sabotage, but again, that’s turning the blame inwards – so appeaser becomes abuser – this time, self-abuser (well, we saw what happened to Crowley – obviously a very mixed-up man!).
If somebody trained you at an early age – and we tend to get this sort of behaviour from our parents – then until you yourself become conscious, and do this thing on purpose (some people actually do seem to like pain), you cannot possibly be to blame. You cannot possibly accept responsibility – or guilt – for your “abuser’s” behaviour if you are not conscious of what you are doing. (*There needs to be an element of “mens rea” – that is, “intention” – invloved for a person to accept guilt or responsiblity. You can only accept responsibility for what you do consciously.)
(And I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – I think we should be very careful with that Crowley deck – I don’t think anybody needs to take his “mess” into their hearts – everything in that deck – like all decks – needs to be thoroughly vetted and critiqued before we take it on board…)
Cheers – and best wishes,
Indrani
I also love the message of the Mary-El tarot: “Wear truth and love like an impenetrable and radiant shield.” If you love, then you love – just make sure that you do in fact love – and that includes loving yourself.
Beautiful! 😀
Sarah,
Thanks, that’s very interesting!
With regard to the Toth tarot – just a note on the Indications: “It’s time you consider yourself, set some limits, and say ‘No’. It may be an old behavior pattern to always direct your love toward people from whom nothing comes in return. This may be a sign indicating your fears of accepting love.”
That last line – “This may be a sign indicating your fears of accepting love” – I think it’s wrong – there seems to be a flaw in the logic. I think chasing after those from whom nothing comes in return is not so much about “a fear of accepting love”, but rather, “seeking to appease” – and we all know where those habits come from. And therein lies the the true message of the Toth Eight of Cups: “Stop wasting your time trying to appease people – it’s not love they want but total domination – the very opposite of love. They are the “death eaters” – and the abuser/appeaser “dance” is the dance of “death” – it’s a race to the bottom – better not to be caught in such a web.”
That’s the cycle that needs to be broken.
Thanks again – cheers! 😀
Well, sounds like that to Crowley this is a Bitter Cup indeed! Rider-Waite Smith and Mary El appear to see this as more of a self-empowerment moment than a “curse those that sucked me dry” moment. Definitely feels to me like a moment of turning to oneself, away from the “empty cups” of others, and seeking anew one’s self-truths. Thanks for the opportunity to contemplate, Sarah (how 8 of cups of you 🙂
Lovely poem, Maria. Thank you!
Oh yes, these themes have been large in my life the last few days. Obligations loom, creating a fork in the road, both in decades-old, and six-month-old relationships. Perhaps I am getting better at recognizing the signs of being taken for granted sooner.
You challenged me to come up with a tarot poem!
Solitude (8 of Cups)
Mine the mercy
Of the crags
And not the cleft
Of flowing marsh where
Lush moonlight walls
Away the sky.
I’ll take the flint points that strike thin air.
My tongue, dry, scrapes my incisors as I climb.
For me, the first two images reflect how this energy always feels to me. The last image, from the Mary-El tarot does not seem to “fit” with how I usually see this archetype, though I understand the connection to the Strength/Lust major arcana.
In the first image I am struck by several things:
– the solar power of the sun feels unhappily trapped by the moon…too much lunar influence may be hinted at
– the figure is walking away from us…he looks tired and defeated…something has not gone well. Walking AWAY from the water hints again that things have been too watery and need to be “earthed” to regain balance and perspective
– the figure-ground reversal of the five cups on the bottom layer speak to me of confusion and delusion…not being able to see things clearly or having been misled or being the one doing the misleading. Everything about this image feels like in-completion, more work to do, disappointment and/or having put too much emotional energy into something that did not work out. It is hard to tell if the cups actually have anything IN them… hence more feelings of uncertainty.
The second image is one I am very familiar with since it used to show up a lot in my spreads and I usually use the Thoth deck for my readings. What strikes me is the acidic green colour to the water…it almost looks like it is bubbling up with putrefaction and stink. The lotus flowers are not even able to hold their heads up anymore (and together look a bit like two halves of a brain that is split open and divided against itself) …things are not rejuvenating. The flow is meager and probably drying up given all the other impressions. To me, this image points to a situation where things have become very imbalanced due to “too much-ness”, probably at the emotional level since it is about cups. There is a clingy, slimy feel here…and a warning that this is something that one has done to the self, because the Saturn glyph at the top alerts me to the responsibilities and boundaries of the self which have probably been ignored for too long.
Whenever this card is drawn in a reading, it is a hard one to take in…but it is always accurate for the situation it seems. If the reading is for me, it’s usually a warning that I’ve gone overboard somewhere and given away too much of my emotional juiciness without being reciprocated and/or things are really stagnating and I’m not willing to see it. For me, being a very watery person astrologically, this card is my personal “Tower” card… the call to stop doing my self-destructive behaviours where I’ve probably given away too much vital energy and get back into honouring the self by examining the situation with radical honesty rather than dysfunctional illusions, no matter how much I might cling to them.
In that regard, then the lion-skin cloak in the third image makes some sense…the need to be fierce and courageous to face one’s own delusions….but for me this requires awareness and diligence….not so much innocence, so for me, this last card is less useful to me as a representative of this archetypal impulse.
Thank you for letting us compare the three different versions! This is always a fun exercise!
Blessed Be