(Note, I just saw that comments were off — I turned them on, you may now comment on this piece. In fact, please do! xef)
By Maria Padhila
About four years ago, at a pagan festival, I attended a workshop given by Raven Kaldera, author of (among other books) Pagan Polyamory: Becoming a Tribe of Hearts. It was the first time I’d tried to learn anything “formally” about polyamory, and I was pretty nervous, feeling, I suppose, similar to how someone first exploring paganism might at any other workshop that weekend. The nervousness dissipated quickly, and for the same reasons — just as all the witches look pretty normal, so did the small group of polyamorists: normal, funny, interesting.
One of Kaldera’s tribe was talking about his feelings when one of his partners tried to meet new people.
“It can be so frustrating, seeing someone you love get turned down by someone they’re interested in,” he was saying. “You just want to shake them and say: ‘What’s wrong with you? Can’t you see how great this person is? You’re such a fool!’”
I remember this because it touched my heart. It’s the way you feel about a friend who is out in date world again, with all its dullness and uncertainties and rising hopes and casual slapdowns. But feeling this way about a lover?
Years later, I’m sitting outside my boyfriend’s apartment on a surprise spring day in mid-February. He’s talking about his plan to invite the barista at the coffee shop (local, fair, non-chain) he goes to nearly every day to an open mic he’s been attending almost every week. They’ve been flirting for months, but still.
I’m testing feeling what he might be feeling. “I never think about how hard it must be, as a man, to approach someone, to move it up a level,” I say.
“Yeah… there’s that point, when you’re out, and maybe you put your arm around her. Will it work? Is it really what you’ve both been thinking about?”
I put myself in that place. It’s been almost a year since Chris and I fell in love. And before that, almost 20 years since that first touch with my husband, Issac. It’s so wonderful and strange to make that shift. It changes the energy, the future, the air around you both. So seldom did it ever feel wrong, on my part — I know pretty strongly who I want to invite in and who I don’t, and I’m good at walling off people I don’t want that close. How could anyone not want that feeling as often as possible?
That’s why I’m pleased that my boyfriend is dating. We’ve all looked around at the local polyamory groups and events, and while those attract a lot of interesting people, there hasn’t been anyone any of the three of us are interested in “in that way,” to use the middle-school terminology.
A few evenings later, I drop my daughter, Tobi, off at her dance class and give Chris a quick call before going for a run. I’m sitting in my car in the dance studio parking lot, stretching my legs against the dash, as we talk about when we might see each other in the next few weeks. He tells me he’ll be at the open mike tomorrow night, that Katie said she’d go with him. I’m thinking high-fives and cheers, but I don’t want to be an embarrassment. This is not someone who should have any difficulty finding a date and more, whenever he wants one. He is brilliant, handsome, spiritual, can cook organic meals, understands tantric sex, and can fix your car or your sink. But the women of the DMV (District of Columbia, Maryland, Virginia) can be a hardened lot, looking to a man’s job, his plastic, his car, his shoes, god only knows what these women are thinking — but most of them rarely open their hearts to a single man over 40 who doesn’t have a professional title. “Fools,” I think. “Can’t you see how great this person is?”
My husband has a job many envy, but despite the fact that we met while in the same profession, and the field gives us a lot to talk about, his job has very little to do with why I love him. His mind, appearance, talents and so forth are all equal in degree but entirely different in expression from those of my boyfriend. I love him for the way he walks, the radiance around him that comes from being a beloved youngest child, his odd humor, and simply because I do, and have, and always will. And I’ll leave it at that for today. Comparison is dangerous territory for polyamorists, and I’m not exploring it this early in the game. A while back we had a conversation when he wondered if it would be hard for him to date. No way, I said. My friends all love him, because he really listens to women — he asks questions, he remembers, and none of it is pretense — he’s utterly transparent and genuinely interested. A triple Virgo, with a big planetary pileup in the 1st house: What you see is what you get.
As I run the dark streets through the 30-degree air, swaddled in two layers of fleece and an increasingly sweaty inner layer of cotton, fighting a runny nose and a glute cramp, I pull at the different threads of feelings, to distract myself. She’s a strawberry blonde. My favorite. I’d like to go on a date with a strawberry blonde woman myself, dammit. They’ll be at an open mic while I’ll likely be going to the grocery store and folding laundry. Jealousy? No, more like FOMO — Fear Of Missing Out. Part of what pushed me into active polyamory was just that — I am getting old, and I want everything I can get out of life. It drove me to run miles, to try to learn to spin from a silk rope, to do more I won’t say here and now. I don’t want to miss anything.
I hope Chris will tell me about his date. I’m so curious. But I won’t pry.
I get home, feed my daughter and get her to finish her homework, fix dinner for myself and a plate for Issac. She’s getting ready for bed and I’m eating when he gets home, a little early. He finished putting her to bed and comes up to eat; I sit with him with a cup of tea and we talk. We have talked more, and more deeply, since I have begun seeing Chris than we have since we were first dating. In early parenthood, we could go weeks without having the kind of conversation we now have routinely. He’s having his salad when I tell him I need to do some work tonight, and after that, there are some things I want to write about.
“Chris asked out this hot woman, and they’re going out tomorrow night. It’s so strange. Mostly I’m just wondering how and when he’ll say he’s got a girlfriend. I tell him he can throw me under the bus if he needs to — if he meets someone he really loves who can’t get with this, he needs to do what he needs to do.”
Coming out poly. That’s a hell of a lot scarier than putting your arm around someone. And it’s the real reason I fear he’ll be rejected. While some men actually like a sexually freer woman, very few woman want a sexually open man. Why cast yourself in with a man who is always, as they see it, cheating on you? Who is never really ‘yours’?
That’s the real fear — not fear of my missing out on fun. Fear of tying either of these men into a halfway existence, where they don’t really get what they want. I know what I want is more love, in more ways, and I’m happy. But can I believe they are? With all my faults? At my age? I’m not even very pretty.
But it’s one date, after all. It takes a lot of time to meet the right person — and even more time and trial and error and confusion before you meet the right people.
“I still have all the usual thoughts one does. She’s younger than me by at least 20 years. But for some reason, none of this is bothering me. I keep testing it to see if it hurts, like pulling off the Band-Aid, but it doesn’t.” It actually makes me extremely excited to think of Chris with another woman, pleasing her, making her want him. Part of it — only part, but I have to admit it’s there — is that with his handsomeness and sexual confidence, he functions as a proxy for me, bringing off the kind of seductions I’d like to but can’t. Yet. I feel like I’m getting closer to doing so, the older I get, oddly enough.
But I don’t want to talk about sex now, at the table. I’m still bundled in layers of running fleece, my sweaty hair covered by an old watch cap. “Does this mean I completely lack self-esteem? Or that I don’t really care?”
“I have an opinion about that,” he says, putting down his fork.
“I want to hear it.”
“I don’t want to insult you.”
“Uh-oh. No, go ahead.”
“In most ways, that’s true, about having low self-esteem. I mean especially as an artist — you never think what you do is good enough, you’re hyper-sensitive to criticism. But emotionally and romantically, you’re like the mirror image. Your self-esteem in that way is very high.
“But at the same time, I think you’re being pretty cavalier. You’re not really seeing how much this might hurt you. What’s strange for me is that I never want to see you hurt or in any kind of pain, ever. But if you ended this relationship, well, I wouldn’t be happy, but it’s not like it would be a bad thing for me if you stopped seeing him. But it would be bad for me to see you have any kind of heartbreak. And then, it’s not like that’s part of you that’s going to change — who’s to say you won’t meet someone else? So it wouldn’t be that good for me.” He goes back to eating his salad, then stops again, and says: “I need to ask you something.”
I brace myself. “Go ahead.”
“Between you and Tobi, you’ve got like six pairs of boots right next to the door. It’s a very small geographical area. You’re waaaayyyy over the limit for shoes by the door. I’m calling it. You have to take some of them up to your rooms.”
He’s so demanding. Damn.
..Couple of words, just to clear my mind.. Half, ..it’s based on 12. ..Just divide the spectrum twelve ways, get your feelers out, and ‘Look’/feel. I shit you not, people are ‘readable’! You just gotta feel the energies (..of course, staring at them doesn’t hurt..).
Maria, I understand the brawl but, we must face health in our own terms. ..Why do we spend our energy trying to divert a system, when we can build one of our own, and Love and support one another?
..There’s the random for the day.. 🙂
Jere
I don’t have time today to say all I want, but thank you Maria and Planet Waves community for everything you shared from your hearts about your experience with polyamory, lived or imagined. Please keep writing!
I’m loving the comments and all the directions you all are rolling off to. @Pam– money is a big deal and one I plan to write about–and one of the first things we talked about re:legal marriage relationship. One rule: I don’t spend our household money on anyone else. But i work and make enough (barring big trouble, which could happen to anyone, poly or not) if needed, if husband decided to go his own way for good. The real trap is health insurance–I can get it, but it would cost a lot more. We’d make it, but it would be hard. I HATE this health uncare system that traps so many into work and lives they don’t like–and has the additional “benefits” of being inefficient, ineffective, generating money for parasite insurance execs, and generating jobs that while needed, aren’t sustainable and offer people (mostly in the south) little chance for advancement or empowerment. Dead end jobs that create nothing for our country and force the people working them into inhuman behavior (“good morning, how can I keep from helping you today?”) I see this from the inside. Anyhow sorry, rant, health care in u.s. is mah bigass rant trigger!!!
Maria, possibly when your husband speaks about you not getting hurt, I think it is with him that you risk being really hurt if he started dating. (A difference between your boyfriend (fluff fun etc however true) and your (and your children’s) bread and butter?) My guess is that he knows it and holds the anchor line. Just a guess. And chapeau to him. Lots of different ways to be kind
2 + 2 doesn’t equal 4? Possibly it depends on what suits you. Finding this for herself, a boss I had found new avenues in sculpture. Her husband wanted an open marriage and took it, after some years she fell in love with a guy who subsequently left her after some years because he wanted children. He was the holding together link for all of them for some years I think, anyway they all adored him. But she had no need of another lover after that. Her husband was also a bit gourmand I think – adventure, excitement etc. She had found her profound needs met and discovered an ability for sculpture flowing out of her without effort.
Is it freedom or selfishness, probably only each one can make the call, each time?
@Carrie: You are a sweetie! A VERY visceral sweetie.. 😉 Because you wrestle there is much sensitive material around; precisely because you are so concerned to protect others. I like the cue/clue in your Capricorn Moon – a difficult placement for a woman at the best of times (I have an acquaintance who has it well aspected to Mercury in the 7th) and even if yours is well aspected for communication with significant others it still remains interesting inner terrain excavating what Capricorn is truly feeling. If you are deeply conflicted and wanting the answer to the deepest resolution of the tension you could be on a merry-go-round. I suspect your feelings will FOLLOW your actions not vice versa! In other words, if you sense that you definitely know something be true to it in your actions and let the rest follow. Basically, the dust clouds always settle. The fear of things being ‘not right’ in the short to medium term (judged by whose standards exactly?) often holds back from necessary change and ramps up the self-denial, almost as a superhuman level of self-sacrifice to others that is literally unsustainable – interestingly, in one of Eric’s recent publications about Vesta, I was vigorously nodding to the whole article and then thought “Hmmm, I wonder if I’ve got Vesta conjunct the Moon or any of the angles” – of course, I check and, well… Vesta exactly conjunct Moon which is 3 degrees proximal to my Ascendant. So yeah, I can relate to all those who have sacrificed self on behalf of others for so long – GREAT for them, not so great for me!
This is a good point to chime in with Sam: Do I ‘own’ that natal aspect? Do I accept that as the essence of my mission? Or do I eschew it, or at least moderate it so that I get more into the equation? Well frankly, I do very much enjoy many of the sexual sacrifices and servanthood I seem to have borne through my life; not so much others! Now, to move on further, Sam…
I am a relative novice with astrology, only moving beyond the periphery after my mother died about this time last year. I now attend a local astrology group and attend the occasional conference – this has changed my perspective quite considerably. Still, I am far from expert and possibly do not wish to become ‘an astrologer’ per se. Eric is a learned astrologer and I think that is why I posed my questions to him – particularly since he ‘owns’ this project. What I am asking requires the ability to take the astrology forward on a level as yet beyond my scope. That is why I mooted the raw idea.
Basically, several folk in my local group are scathing of the limits of Sun sign work (largely due to some poor, high profile flag-bearers, of the species!) I’ve tried to draw them to a middle ground with limited success. Still, I take on board their points about the generic facets implicit. Eric does a superb job of making this kind of astrology credible and accessible. Still, there are limits and it is not always clear how astrology can, in spirit, reliably and usefully inform debates within say, sex and sexuality or societal configurations.
So, to make things more concrete (from general perspective not specifically astrology): Buddhism and Taoism would say attachment is ephemeral and a source of pain. Psychology, let’s say Bowlby’s theories of Attachment, would say that attachment just IS and that there are different styles of said attachment. One approach is dichotomous, the other more truly pluralistic. ‘Spirituality’ based theories often better psychological ones – but in this case of attachment, that is highly debatable! We can get into problems when we ascribe archetypes to signs. Still, what it is to be human, while not primarily or inevitably archetypal, does involve some styles or ways of being that are just so. Co-dependency is another category full of holes within psycho-babble speak. One man’s meat is another’s poison… The goal, on a personal level, is surely to support true individuation of each person within a responsible framework of broad-spectrum awareness, and within a thoroughly diversity-friendly way of living – centrally promoting conscious choices.
But part of individuation (which is regularly ignored) is the desire to forge patterns of kinship that are largely around mirroring (copying). We get much sense of belonging out of similarities and congruences, regardless of the ethical content or the emphases of the times we are living in. People seek comfort.. often people don’t want to confront death, certainly not staring it in the face as a terrorizing concept 24/7. We can’t all always be so Uranian that we live with no certainties and seek none to surround us!
This means our archetypes are of some functional purpose in providing comfort, even when they are not strictly accurate representations of reality (whatever that means).
So, Sam…. Does a Pisces do boundaries like a Capricorn? Should they? Should their responses be identical given the exact same presenting stimuli? If astrology teaches us acceptance and non-judgmentalism, I applaud it. How we extend that meaningfully to the actually diverse, living and breathing beings we encounter in a variety of contexts, is an altogether more challenging task. But if we are using Sun sign astrology as a starting point then we may wish to ask whether or not, at certain points, it is okay for psychology (or any other paradigm) to usurp an astrological perspective or perhaps explore the ways in which the two can hold mutual dialogue without either end of the polarity being subsumed under the other!
I know this is still quite complex, Sam, but it is the best I can do with my paucity of concrete astrological knowledge – I know a lot, but then again, not very much….
“Would the sky fall in if you ‘came out’ poly?”
I told my husband about my feelings and he was worried about them and a bit afraid of loss but he seemed accepting. So not with him; the sky didn’t fall. With the kids…I have no idea but I suspect that if I did they would feel threatened. In my small town, no because my husband needs his teaching job and I will not subject him or the kids to the censure of others.
I haven’t acted on these feelings mainly because I have no one in mind to act them out with. I also don’t think it would be that easy, at my age, to find someone I feel a connection to. I had someone I felt a connection to but he doesn’t feel the same about me. Finding a connection takes a lot of time and energy; I have so little time as it is. So all this discussion is only that for me…a discussion or a fleshing out my feelings as it were.
Half,
Thank you for helping me understand.
“When someone points out that your struggle is as much with yourself as the issues it can feel like criticism – it surely isn’t…”
This medium is indeed difficult for expressing things; I didn’t see Eric’s post as criticism, I just wasn’t sure what he meant by the last few words (“mostly by you”). I know I am struggling with this issue; I make no secret of that here on PW. I didn’t see his post as negative either; people here on PW tend to be positive and compassionate so I always give them the benefit of the doubt in that direction. That includes you, Half; I see your words as compassionate and positive. :::smiling:::
I do not wish to impose on everyone by blurting out my emotional struggles here; if anyone gets tired of reading my overly long and book-like posts please tell me. Even in spoken conversations I can talk a lot….and fast. :::laughing:::
I am hurting a lot these days over some things and I think that pain tends to come out here at PW. Sorry about that.
Half,
Would you be willing to begin answering your own question, using concrete approaches and examples? I think that would be most engaging for me, and I’d understand better what you’re asking. I’m curious…
@Carrie: I think what Eric is reflecting is positive but may not feel so to you. Because you have the honesty to openly question on a public forum, and with a particular style, it feels like you are having an extended conversation (conflict?) with yourself about the core issues at stake – and people get to overhear that struggle! When someone points out that your struggle is as much with yourself as the issues it can feel like criticism – it surely isn’t… At least that’s my reading. It is a tough path to traverse..
But I want to use the following extract as an entry point to illustrate some of the weightier issues in the mix with this whole arena:
The relationship of family structures to wider society and culture is intrinsic to this whole project. We could predict this from Kantian thinking such as the Categorical Imperative linking ethics and action to social structures with an implied socio-cultural normativity at heart. Quite apart from this individual/society dyadic axis of analysis we may further resolve those components into facets/paradigms such as, for example, psychology. And this is where I would like to highlight your attention to ‘children’s need for security, stability’ being paramount because it raises the question for all of us about what that security is. Addressed on a merely psychological level we would be making a case for keeping the social structures as they are, while maybe working the attachment issues.
In any event, I would suggest that this whole question of stability, security and the psychological/social/cultural concomitants is an arena for new models. But models are simply models and so the poly community dealing with these issues experimentally seems like a must – I think, Carrie, that it must be very difficult to be embedded in the hetero-normative context with willingness to be personally open, instead of having access to a whole sub-culture in supporting your emerging values. This is Eric’s point again. You will be conflicted.. It’s like ‘coming out’. All power to you for wrestling with such integrity. Would the sky fall in if you ‘came out’ poly? Nope! But you would trade one set of difficulties for another.. 🙁
@Everyone and particularly Eric: I wish to broaden this out though with something I’ve been pondering for a while – the relationship of this debate to astrology, in a way that might change the way we see/practice both issues.
I have a (considerably) younger female friend who has, natally, Pisces Sun in the 7th, conjunct the descendant. When I looked at her chart I saw several themes, all of which strongly correlate to her life and personality. (She jokes that she USED to be clingy!) It seems to me that some ways of linking psychological/therapeutic perspectives to astrology effectively make the natal chart jump to the therapeutic tune. “Okay lady, less of your co-dependent ways! Never mind your birth chart, work with it, overcome its deficits” (as defined by the logocentric truths of malestream scientific paradigms of correctness).
One of the drawbacks of an exclusively Sun sign approach, combined with a particular therapeutic viewing point is that many ways of being that ‘simply are’ get minced into a ‘what should be’.
Bringing this observation squarely back to a Sun sign emphasis, could it be that the psychology/therapeutic considerations should vary across and between signs? After all, astrology has a great basis of appeal in its representing a truly diverse cosmos, ever changing, never replicating its configuration exactly; arguably the best model we have for representing the plurality and diversity of all things – offering the best entry point for humans who embrace it, in not judging any other configuration as right/wrong, relative to mine being defined as correct.
It seems to me that debates about many of these issues are insoluble and that we need communities to spring up with all their imperfections and contradictions to allow new things to be born. The most important qualification seems to be a willingness to cast off the old strictures of thinking.. take a few plunges!!
Still, the point holds good that if astrology has anything to say to these matters, it surely speaks with a true voice of plurality – transcending mere Sun sign assignations combined with a unified therapeutic take, there needs to be the kind of progression from imputing generic reflections with universal correctness to learning to live the ebb and flow of one’s personal astrology – that one must become acquainted with. Otherwise it’s like we only ever listen to the sermon on a Sunday, while failing ever to pick the Bible up for ourselves.
@Eric: What scope do you think exists for ‘personalizing’ the psychological aspects/traits of each Sun sign – obviously imperfect compared to the individuation of the natal chart, but could each sign have modified therapeutic imperatives in diverse astrological climates, as functions of their latent temperaments?
I think this linkage, while maybe beyond the reasonable scope of Planet Waves to incorporate, nonetheless broadens out the relationship between astrology and everything else contemporaneously relevant.
There seems to be a common fear with people that if they tell the truth, if they are fully living an authentic existence, they will experience loss.
Be it being truthful with a partner, a child, themselves, the conclusion seems to be that the world will unravel and loss will occur.
Whatever type relationship one is in, if the goal is to grow and support one another, how could being truthful and authentic be absent? I would think that a parent would want to teach their children these attributes. Maybe that is how the culture has gotten so far from our roots. I witnessed so many friends that grew up with enormous freedom and expression in the 60’s & 70’s only to clamp down in serious denial and control when they themselves had children.
My ex grew up 2nd generation poly. He is 60 now. I envied the stories he would tell about his education within the family structure. I think it is healthy to teach children boundaries and discretion. It is not about keeping secrets, it is about building a positive structure to maneuver in a vast world of individuals. Information is a good thing along with the open dialogue to answer those questions that pop up.
Poly isn’t easy, neither is monogamy, and it all does come down to the individual. Relationships are just the arena we all play in.
“Questioning monogamy and heteronormative themes of any kind lead to the direct questioning of those other assumptions as well.
Mostly by you…”
Mostly by me? What do you mean by that if I may ask? Does that mean no one else (such as my husband or my kids) questions that? Or other people? Or society in general? I am not sure where you were going with that.
I will say that starting last year, I began a gradual change in which I have been asserting myself with my family. I am changing my body, myself, and the way I allow other people (even my kids) to access me. They resent it but I know it doesn’t harm them because I am still very accessible to them for the most part. David and I have also carved out privacy for ourselves as well; something we had not thought to do much before. In everything I do, I try to balance my needs with theirs.
I am not so much questioning polyamory; I have no problem with people doing that. I am questioning my feelings because as of last year, the usual Virgo Rising self who has been efficiently in charge of my life has been pushed back and my Pisces sun is becoming rather prominent. This is partly because of my physical hormonal changes and partly because when I changed what I ate, my serotonin levels dropped (no carbs means less serotonin) and now I FEEL all of my feelings like crazy. No more contented lethargy for me. While that’s probably a good thing, it makes it difficult to do the everyday stuff of running a household (planning meals, making them, doing bills, keeping everyone’s schedule straight, etc). I feel like I am being hijacked by my feelings.
Some of those feelings are the rampantly voracious sexual ones. I submerged those for the stability of a marriage with kids because my husband wanted that and I didn’t want to hurt him or upset the stability of our relationship (which the kids would have picked up on very quickly). Now that I am becoming a different person (with a lot more energy and feelings again) they have come back with a vengeance. Tough to handle for me who is very Capricorn moon and wants status quo.
So I am not questioning polyamory or monogamy per se; just what to do with my feelings. I cannot just do whatever I want; other people will be affected by what I do and I cannot bear to harm anyone. If my kids had not been raised in the oh-so- traditional family situation they have, I could explore such feelings easily but they have and foisting adult issues like polyamory on them when they have no experience with anything remotely similar and when they are still immature can cause a lot of anxiety and fears; why would I do that to them?
That’s what I am dealing with; it is not about questioning the validity of polyamory or monogamy.
Carrie, polyamory is also about — or primarily about — family structure.
And there is a theme of respecting individuality. Monogamy does not mean “having sex with one person.” There are many assumptions within that structure, and often one of them is “mom shalt not have her own life.” Questioning monogamy and heteronormative themes of any kind lead to the direct questioning of those other assumptions as well.
Mostly by you…
apologies to all about the comments being off earlier!
that was a casualty of a very slow internet connection a couple days ago when i was formatting this post. this morning when i went to schedule it, i noticed three-quarters of the piece was missing & had to restore an earlier draft. for whatever reason, sometimes when the connection times out while trying to save a draft, half of it doesn’t show up & comments get turned off. it’s been a while since that has happened, so i forgot to check the comments button.
oops!
thanks, eric for restoring that.
Maria, that’s good to know, thanks for sharing that. Your insights are exactly what I was looking for.
And I am very aware that monogamous relationships have no monopoly on stability…hardly. ::::laughing::: The divorce rate shows that. I haven’t the ability to edit posts and I wanted to add that but had to go take care of some family errands. So I am adding it here.
I have teens who are far too astute to keep this kind of stuff from. So for me, not telling them would not work. They sense things way too easily. I would also have to limit anything to an out-of-the-house arrangement. Living in would not work for us because of the kids (I have four; three teen girls and one 9 year old boy).
Not that I will ever do anything like this anyway….with a house full of people (six people!) life is already waay too complicated. My teens already resent the time I spend on PW and other sites as it is. Imagine me spending time with a “friend;” I haven’t any close friends here (they moved away last year) so my kids are not used to sharing me much.
At every poly conference I’ve ever been to, the issue of children is present and focused. I’ve seen many panels, many parenting styles demonstrated, many forms of family. The kids all seem fine. By that, I mean they seem cared for, emotionally present and able to relate to the adults. There will be exceptions, but spend an evening in the Kingston Hospital E.R. and I assure you that none of the people who come through with their extreme problems identify as polyamorous.
What children need is love and some consistency. The relationship style does not matter. The environment does. Lots and lots of monogamous people practice disposable relationships, and that is what’s bad for kids. So too are parents who are unhappy but put the burden of the relationship on the children.
Poly is about adults taking responsibility for what they want and need. In my experience the boundaries are much better than in situations where “partners” come and go, where the concept (i.e., fact of) of the childrens’ attachment to the adults is not considered, and so on. The danger in a poly situation is dealing with the school district or psychotic inlaws. It has very little to do with the actual partners, who are generally committed to conscious, sustainable relationship.
Thank all for comments! And questions. I know I won’t be able to keep up with them all, and as several point out, it’s all individual anyway. But wanted to let Carrie know that Issac and I have a child and I’m actually pretty paranoid about protecting her in every way. I don’t think kids have to know everything, and I have no trouble saying “that’s for grownups.” She knows Chris as a friend of the family. I believe this isn’t too confusing because I have several very close friends, male and female, straight and gay, who I pal around with and hug and obviously care about. If we all lived together, it would be different, but this works for now. Working out boundaries with families is a challenge I’ve been asking various poly people about…and hope I’ll be able to write about in future. It’ll take more than one post, I’ve got a feeling! And…my husband amazes me every day with his combined strength and vulnerability.
This is a really interesting insight into poly relationships but I wish someone who has children could write about it, and I wish the children (older ones most likely) could write how they feel about their parents being poly affects them. Aware children, not the kind who just spit out the parents’ “party line” for parental approval.
I say this because every article I have read about poly relationships is conspicuously missing any mention of children or how it affects them or even any concern about how it affects them. Having poly relationships is all well and good but if there are kids extra precautions must be thought out and the children’s need for security, stability (revolving partners are not stability) must be paramount because their needs outweigh the adults wants or needs. This is because adults can make their own decisions; kids cannot and as such, they are dragged through whatever their adult caregivers decide. So their needs must be paramount. Just saying.
Hi Maria,
thanks so much for these very thought-provoking writings, I mean it. it’s good to feel like my skull has been opened and my brain picked up and put back (Lovingly) in a slightly different place. meaning, through your story I am able to put myself in your shoes and then ‘try on’ your circumstances and see how I would feel about them, and I appreciate the exercise. I admire your ability to give those of us who are fairly ignorant of poly relationships an insider’s view of some of the dynamics, questions, feelings, goings-on etc. which is to say, of course, it’s all of the same things that go on in non-poly relationships, except you have more people that are interconnected into an intimate dynamic.. did I say that right? please correct me, like I said, I am curious but sadly very ignorant on this topic.
and I’m sure the dynamics of your family are the dynamics of your family, meaning that each poly relationship would be as different as there are flavors of people, right? so, is there a main difference between poly and non-poly besides the ‘poly’ part? sorry if that sounded dumb. but if I’m thinking clearly, it seems that in many ways, poly ‘could’ be a more free, truthful, and therefore possibly loving choice. would you say that the main ‘problem’ to it, or why some people freak out is because they can’t allow or bear to have their partner having sexual relations with another…? is that it?
Ok, well, I better stop there since I’m feeling very much like Alice in Wonderland. asking all my questions.
like I said, thanks for your contribution. that shaman was interesting, and well, what can I say, but I absolutely adore San Francisco…
lots to think about, my brain feels good though, a Gemini surgeon, obviously. was it you Patty who also had a Gemini surgeon?
hey, they don’t call it Daily Astrology & Adventure for nuthin’….
thanks again, Maria!
peace, Love.
Beautiful piece Maria.
The poly road is full of lessons. I wish you all the best in your journey. Thank you for your openness and willingness to share your thoughts with us.
I remember the overwelling joy I felt the first time watching my partner having sex with another woman. That included surprise and partial relief that I didn’t feel one iota of jealousy. Then there was the first time watching a man with my partner; we were children in full play! Again, amazing!
Life evolves and revolves and as it does, the bug-a-boos come flying outward with great centrifugal force. We all fall down. The best part is when we help one another get up. Bruised knees and hearts; we play again. Or not.
I hope you will share more, Maria.
Ah. If only I were this brave and able to explore. But I have kids, vulnerable kids and a vulnerable husband. I cannot harm them.