I’ve got a working chart for the operation earlier this morning in Abottabad, Pakistan. The dates and times of this whole thing have been extremely squirmy, more than I’m comfortable with. We’ve seen no official reports of the times of incidents, only hearsay. The best indicator we have is that helicopters were first heard at 12:35 above Abottabad by someone who was live blogging the incident without knowing it — Twitterer @ReallyVirtual, also known as Sohaib Athar. Now he’s really famous for the next 15 minutes. He said, “Uh oh, now I’m the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it.”
The chart gives us the last degree of Capricorn rising. This is edgy, as it’s on the edge, and there is the hint of danger. This was a collaboration between Delta Force and the Navy SEALs. The Delta Force made its debut in 1980 with the botched rescue attempt of the American hostages being held in Tehran. So they get something of a web redemption three decades later. Once again there was a helicopter failure; one got left behind and was bombed by U.S. forces on the way out.
There’s lots about this I don’t trust. I don’t like that they had gotten rid of the body before Obama went on the air at 11:35 pm EDT Sunday night. It strains the imagination how bin Laden could have been living in a suburb outside the capital of Pakistan. It’s even impressive that he was supposedly alive. But I’m becoming a tough customer of this perpetual war routine; of the constant rumor of war, everything seeming to be a new opportunity to make some more war. As well, what difference does it really make that bin Laden is supposedly dead? He was mainly a figurehead, someone we could use to blame everything on.
One angle I’ll develop is, I’m not sure where they’re going with this. Now that everyone is sure we’ve killed the boogeyman, this can go one of a few ways. Way One is we now have an excuse to ramp down the War on Terror. It looks good: bin Laden’s gone, everyone comes home. It’s bloody and bloody expensive to have this war going on in Afghanistan and everyone knows it.
Way Two is, there are all kinds of reprisals staged, that is, acts of revenge for our killing the great man, and the war gets more involved, including additional ‘givebacks’ of domestic rights.
We shall see. I don’t have a sense of which way the astrology points, but I don’t like how the void Moon keeps showing up — most recently in the news about this incident breaking last night. That’s too much of a wildcard for me. I’m looking for purpose and precision amidst the madness.
First thing I checked was the difference in hours; 11:35 pm May 1st was 8:35 am May 2nd for Pakistan; When I put in Abbottabad, pakistan it came up with the wrong coordinates so I switched to Islamabad. At 4 am it’s Aries rising which makes a lot of sense for a raid; Still void of course Moon but it was written, completed. That it happened in Aries is interesting as I remember the 9/11 attacks had lots to do with balance. Saturn is on the descendant.
If it was a rue to get people to admit he was already dead, we will find that out in the days to come; I had heard that Benazir Bhutto knew but she was also standing in the way of the gas pipeline so her death could have been for one reason or another. Sarkowsky is also supposed to know.
Anyway, there was also a source that said Bin Laden had a kidney transplant in Dubai, so he would not need dialysis equipment anymore unless that kidney failed. and he has plenty of relatives to ask for one.
Just a few comments and thoughts I had running around my head.
We have been living in this game of the matrix for a long, long time. The collective mind of our race believes that it is real and this has been the problem all along. I can tell you, the stronghold of thought is shifting over to those with the consciousness of awareness. This action is seeping into our daily moments and the result feels surreal.
Memories from events past, snipped into tiny pieces until not much but the sensation of it is left to remember, are tapping on the windows, knocking at the door. It makes for great clarity when faced with thoughts coming through the matrix. Mine, not mine, not mine, not mine, mine.
Not knowing much about astrology, I listened to the podcast with intuitive ears. From my energetic work with the matrix, I know that this timing of collective memory release of 911 was perfectly positioned to slide into that pocket of stored emotion in celebration over the death of Hitler. It makes sense to see the sleeping, herd mentality producing such blood thirsty joy in the streets.
I could not help to note the presence of voids in the chart. It made me laugh. The matrix machine is self propelled but not self powered. The whole affair has not produced the desired effect. More weird shit will be flung.
Thank you, Eric.
xxzoey
I am mystified by the celebration that is taken root EVERYWHERE and continues. I suppose it’s, as you all have written here, so much disaster coverage, so many wars and no real “mission accomplished” banner to wrap our american ideals in … yeah, that makes sense. But what is making me uncomfortable is the blood lust that’s exhibited. I was soo tempted to run outside and uulate in my burqa (all the al jezeera coverage of the response to the crumbling of the towers) … but frankly I don’t have a burqa and I don’t think anyone would get it.
I am secretly suspecting that this is what the collapse of the patriarchy means — so many men/boys feeling uber impotent and aching for blood sport.
mm.
so , what’s the deal with Neptune in the 1st?
is that about sacrifice? (whether someone’s body or name was sacrificed for an agenda, story, etc.-or is it a truth -identity of body, identity of where the hell the body went, the sea???etc. that was sacrificed)
or a fog over the identity.a scapegoat….a fog over what things look like?
misty shroud..of . deception? 1 Pis – lots going on there at the bustling marketplace- can look quite chaotic depending upon what market it is. being lost in a crowd- umm. trading? trading bodies? information? commodities? -est. a market value????
the Mandala says: (sorry, new fav. toy, prob. quoting too much):
” a closing of accounts…emphasizes that the time has come to take full advantage of the social opportunities to bargain and trade.” -maybe this is the real impetus, because the US now wants something or is in a deal with someone that would make it inconvenient or impossible with Osama still alive.. that there is something to be gained (by the appearance of Osama gone).
I’ll close with this gem, “it refers to all that can be gained fr. social interplay (bargain, trade, subterfuge? ) and esp. …from COMMERCE. ” now WHO is benefiting, and why? grr?
well, no surprises there.
just some notes/baby mind thoughts because Nept. looks weird to me there,with its two eyes 00 looking out like a ghost in the 1st + possible (likely) deception, and at early Pis, while everything else is in Aqu.
I don’t know, does Neptune need to be heavily aspected in order for it to be
deceptive? and what astrological influences rule helicopters? and what about Navy SEALS-water!! Pis/ Neptune. gotta get to the bottom of this! smile
now all add this to the 30 Cap- VoC moon..
you’re getting way too symbolic, Sadge, finding meaning in specks of dust, yes, grains of sand.
time for bed. zzzzzzzzzzz
Who benefits? The architects of disaster capitalism.
Here’s Naomi Klein explaining the basic idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9CM_J00bw
First, thank, you Eric and everyone engaged in this very important conversation. Here are my thoughts: it goes without saying that over the past few months there have been a lot of natural disasters, and possibly, unnatural disasters, as well as, an overwhelming mass of critical events occurring throughout the world. This is leaving most of us – worldwide – overwhelmed, confused and uncertain. Who benefits from a populace that is overwhelmed, confused and uncertain?
At one point here at Planet Waves, there was a consideration, for instance, that the Japan earthquake might have a human signature. Intelligent people in these blog posts questioned that if that were so, what would be the motive? Who would benefit? Then, the next critical event occurred, then the next, then the next…. And, that recent conversation, just one among many, was lost in the swirl of subsequent events.
Currently, we are all exploring the question of who would benefit from the actual or apparent death of Bin Laden? Even if we aren’t among those celebrating in the streets, even if we are exploring this issue critically, we are still focused on the current, next dramatic event.
I don’t have an answer to this, but it is my question. Who benefits from a populace who, credulous or incredulous, is focused on the next large scale event? Who, if anyone, benefits from a worldwide, distabilized natural, political and economic condition? What, if anything, are we are being distracted from?
It is obvious from Eric’s astrological assessment and the subequent conversations here, that most of us feel manipulated by this Bin Laden incident. Most of us suspect that this incident is like a pawn being moved on a very large chessboard. I worry that we are, even in part, unwitting pawns, too. I don’t want to imply that the questions about Bin Laden are not important – I feel they are vitally important. I am just wondering….
Fe’s first post: no electronic equipment on the downed helicopter is all that sensitive once it has had a thermite bomb placed on top of it. There are also switches that are easily and quickly turned that render the equipment utterly useless to anyone not in the US military: a real ‘kill switch’ if you will. The thermite just melts it all into slag and scrap metal, and flight crews and SEALS are well trained in aircraft destruction using it. Melt the electronics first, then set off more charges to burn the entire aircraft into a puddle of molten aluminum and other metals.
For a mission like this there would be no civilian style PC’s that could be hacked, only specialized equipment that is easily destroyed within minutes. You can even take out inessential sensitive equipment from the aircraft beforehand, just in case you may go down. As to weapons, there would be nothing that the Pakistanis either don’t have themselves or know about already.
How did the Pakistani’s not know we were coming? Not that difficult really. Kabul is roughly 230 miles from Abbottabad as the crow flies. Fly up against, but not over the mountains to the north, skirt Jalalabad and Peshawar as well and fly at about 200-300 feet above ground. Blackhawks have a cruising speed of 173 MPH, meaning if you are flying about 250 miles all told, it will take you about 90 minutes for a one way trip. These would probably have been Pave Hawks from the Air Force, which are specially equipped and designed for special forces operations like this.
Flying at about 200 feet keeps you below most radar nets over advanced countries, and Pakistani radar (which is not that advanced) probably does not cover the northwestern part of the country very well at all. India is the country they are most concerned about, and we most likely plotted all of their radar sites well in advance and what it would take to get past them. No need to jam the radar per se, and make the Pakistanis aware, but perhaps spoofing them by making sure the radar sees nothing at all was done. Spoofing is where you mimic the radar and send a signal back to it that shows ‘nothing’ is out there. Easier to describe than explain. Not stealthy, since you are transmitting a signal that can be traced, but when the other side doesn’t expect you and isn’t listening, they have no idea at all that you are near.
No helicopters would have flown to the Carl Vinson: it was over 800 miles by my measurement to the Indian Ocean nearest Pakistan, so it was back to Kabul, and then a fast plane to the carrier from there.
This concludes your late evening technical briefing…
As for me, I’m feeling a muted ‘wow’ mixed with apprehension about the ultimate result of this execution, and what the immediate future holds for us all. I’ll leave the astrological aspects to EFC and the others here, I’m still just a beginning student of the stars.
Fe – You were right: the spy-super soldier alliance has begun. Petraeus has his finger prints all over this, and so too Panetta. Perhaps the promotions were rewards for a job (not yet) well done?
Re the headlines posted by Fe: Sheltered by Pakistan is supported by the chart. 3rd house is local and the chart is for someplace in Pakistan. The Aries cluster is in the 3rd house. The representative of the secret government is in the 9th and retrograde, ruled by and opposed by Venus. The backwards foreign government representing the ascendant is ruled by Venus in Aries. Pisces is on the second house and ruled by Jupiter in a cluster with Mars and Eris in Aries. War for resources, war for oil and poppies. Jupiter also rules the 11th house- global capitalism.
If this whole thing, the whole fairy tale, the whole explanation for 9/11 and the aftermath was an elaborate plot to bomb the fuck out of Afghanistan, and then Iraq so disaster capitalists would have free reign to rebuild, including a pipeline through their land this chart makes more sense. The foreign government represented by retrograde Saturn: repeating a mistake every empire that has ever tried to occupy Afghanistan has faced, its strings pulled by Pakistan as the cluster in Aries and the 3rd house linked to Saturn by Venus rulership of Libra and Venus opposing Saturn. Dumped the body at sea? Come on…pull the other one. Shave his beard and no one would recognize him. Maybe he served his purpose and the story of his death gets him off the hook. But what do I know? I’m just an astrologer.
Boy it’s great to hear this podcast, which basically says everything I’ve been thinking all day long (minus the astrology, which I couldn’t know, obviously).
It just really really horrendous that the country is celebrating the (supposed) death of bin Laden. I can’t process it. I mean, even if you accepted the story that bid Laden was responsible for 9-11, and then accepted that US special forces killed him today — why would the approved reaction to that be “rejoicing in the streets”?
What happened to our basic respect for civilization? Even when you kill your enemy and he is a bad guy, you still are supposed to say, taking a life is always a sobering thing, and it’s terrible that it has come to this, but we had to do what we had to do …etc.
But no such sober, humanizing thoughts out there in the media — no sir! Nothing of the sort. No one even raises such an idea. It’s just straight to the Barbarian end of the spectrum — let’s glory in the guy’s blood and dance and sing !
It’s really disturbing, I can’t quite get it in my head that this the reaction of so many of my fellow citizens.
But also, Eric, I COMPLETELY agree that it makes no sense at all that they so quickly got rid of the body, and that alone is reason to suspend our belief until more evidence is provided. They need to provide some kind of evidence that can be INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED in order to be credible.
And if they want to take politiical credit for getting bid Laden, if they want to be taken seriously, there is just no doubt that they need to provide such evidence, and every one of us should withhold our consent to accepting this as fact until such evidence has been produced.
My first thoughts this morning when I heard the news were that this was political theater staged by the military to give them an excuse to get out of Afganistan, which they are losing badly and which is a lost cause.
I don’t know if that’s still my conclusion. I’ll have to see what happens next. I tend to think that at this corrupt stage in our history, the President does not entirely control the military. I think it is a semi-autonomous organization — they answer to the executive to some degree, and obviously the President can order military actions, but I’m not so sure that he can control them completely once they get started.
Maybe it’s like Caeser and the Praetorian Guard in Rome– who was the boss of whom? It probably flows back and forth but in the end, the guys with the guns are the ones who really decide what happens, alas.
I don’t think that Obama is behind whatever deception is going on here. I think it’s coming from somewhere else.
1984 is what I thought too. It felt like that exact kind of disinformation watching Obama’s speech. One possibility I’m considering is that so many people believe the Official Fairy Tale™ that in order to end the wars this was an important plot point. But then a tripple conjunction of Eris, Mars and Jupiter doesn’t bode well for ending wars. The very next major aspect Luna makes to a planet is a sextile to Neptune as she enters Taurus which says to me the celebrations took place entirely within the confines of the fairy tale.
Out…of…aspect. How can they say they they intended to take him alive while simultaneously having planned (planned, mind you) to bury him at sea? There is definitely comething wrong with this picture.
eric – re: kidney disease, i ran across this earlier today by accident:
http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6570172-clarifying-osama-bin-laden-myths
By Robert Windrem, NBC News Investigative reporter
“Myth 2. He needed dialysis.
“He never underwent dialysis, said U.S. officials. He had kidney stones, not kidney failure. The former is treatable, the latter needs dialysis. Bin Laden did have low blood pressure and an enlarged heart.”
i don’t know anything about windrem, but again, here is another fork in the road in OBL info. the page does not seem to indicate where this info comes from to fact check it, beyond that phrase, “U.S. officials.”
For those who don’t know how they feel, MSNBC is there to tell you:
http://moms.today.com/_news/2011/05/02/6571154-so-the-us-is-like-spider-man-and-bin-ladens-the-green-goblin-explaining-justice-and-revenge-to-kids
So, the U.S. is like Spider-Man and bin Laden’s the Green Goblin? Explaining justice and revenge to kids
It’s not quite as simple as U-S-A! As a parent, you have to balance your own feelings of relief and happiness about the news of bin Laden’s death with the complicated task of explaining to kids how bad news (someone dying) can actually be good news. …
I hope everyone reads Juan Cole’s take on this.
http://www.juancole.com/2011/05/obama-and-the-end-of-al-qaeda.html
Its a good primer on the history and life of Bin-Laden, why he did what he did and the meaning of Al-Qaeda today, which is getting eclipsed by the Middle East in revolutions for justice and democracy as we speak.
And now they are using this “successful operation” to justify the CIA’s secret prisons in Eastern Europe, oh joy.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden
By ADAM GOLDMAN and CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press – 23 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Osama bin Laden, the terror mastermind killed by Navy SEALs in an intense firefight, was hunted down based on information first gleaned years ago from detainees at secret CIA prison sites in Eastern Europe, officials disclosed Monday. The U.S. said a DNA match proved the man behind the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, was dead, and millions of Americans rejoiced.
And nobody noticed. I get it.
Bin Laden lived in the same neighborhood where one of the best medical hospitals — geared for Pakistani veterans — was nearby.
The diagrams of the Bin Laden compound in Abbottabad are remarkable. The compound was almost an army base.
I just read that they’re thinking about releasing pictures of the corpse but are concerned about the graphic nature; supposedly there was a shoot-out in the bedroom [hence the pic’s of the bloody bed] where Osama hid behind a woman some are assuming was one of his wives. But we don’t believe in pictures of birth certificates so just how credible would a picture of Osama-with-holes be?
As well, there’s a video that was found — a just-in-case martyr video to further the cause should the worst happen, I s’pose. I only get CNN and Blitzer and Anderson Cooper are refusing to run it.
I just put out comments, links, reads on Political Waves, here:
http://polwaves.planetwaves.net/2011/05/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/
Osama was always a spook, figuratively and now perhaps literally. We’ll need a new BadAss now.
It wasn’t that he merely had kidney disease; he was required dialysis. I know there are modern methods of doing that. But apparently this was pretty serious. And it’s one factor among many.
Personally, I’m always a little befuddled at why people bring up the kidney disease issue. I have a lot of experience dealing with people who have had or have kidney disease, and there is no reason why bin Laden could not survive with renal impairment, especially given his resources. Advanced kidney disease does not mean his kidneys have ceased functioning altogether, and in fact, people can live with advanced kidney disease for quite a while. Even if he reached the stage where he did require dialysis, he could certainly afford his own dialysis machine. As long as he had access to electricity for the machine, he could have managed for years. And with his network, I would not be surprised if he brokered a transplant somehow. Maybe this is all irrelevant and highly speculative, but I mention it because his access to cash would make his disease much more manageable than people think.
Eric,
Believe you are right. There is something wrong with this picture. No body, no proof. The real question is, what are we being distracted from?
Remember — we have NO clue that it was him. Nada — nothing!
Then they dumped the body at sea.
This is an excerpt from Steve Coll at the New Yorker:
May 2, 2011
Notes on the Death of Osama bin Laden
Posted by Steve Coll
No doubt there will be time to reflect more deeply about the news announced by President Obama last night. For now, I thought it might be useful to annotate some of the initial headlines.
On where he was found:Abbottabad is essentially a military-cantonment city in Pakistan, in the hills to the north of the capital of Islamabad, in an area where much of the land is controlled or owned by the Pakistani Army and retired Army officers. Although the city is technically in what used to be called the Northwest Frontier Province, it lies on the far eastern side of the province and is as close to Pakistani-held Kashmir as it is to the border city of Peshawar. The city is most notable for housing the Pakistan Military Academy, the Pakistani Army’s premier training college, equivalent to West Point. Looking at maps and satellite photos on the Web last night, I saw the wide expanse of the Academy not far from where the million-dollar, heavily secured mansion where bin Laden lived was constructed in 2005. The maps I looked at had sections of land nearby marked off as “restricted areas,” indicating that they were under military control. It stretches credulity to think that a mansion of that scale could have been built and occupied by bin Laden for six years without its coming to the attention of anyone in the Pakistani Army.
The initial circumstantial evidence suggests that the opposite is more likely—that bin Laden was effectively being housed under Pakistani state control. Pakistan will deny this, it seems safe to predict, and perhaps no convincing evidence will ever surface to prove the case. If I were a prosecutor at the United States Department of Justice, however, I would be tempted to call a grand jury. Who owned the land on which the house was constructed? How was the land acquired, and from whom? Who designed the house, which seems to have been purpose-built to secure bin Laden? Who was the general contractor? Who installed the security systems? Who worked there? Are there witnesses who will now testify as to who visited the house, how often, and for what purpose? These questions are not relevant only to the full realization of justice for the victims of September 11th. They are also relevant to the victims of terrorist attacks conducted or inspired by bin Laden while he lived in the house, and these include many Pakistanis, as well as Afghans, Indians, Jordanians, and Britons. They are rightly subjects of American criminal law.
Outside the Justice Department, other sections of the United States government will probably underplay any evidence of culpability by the Pakistani state or sections of the state, such as its intelligence service, I.S.I., in sheltering bin Laden. As ever, there are many other fish to fry in Islamabad and at the Army headquarters, in nearby Rawalpindi: an exit strategy from Afghanistan, which requires the greatest possible degree of coöperation from Pakistan that can be attained at a reasonable price; nuclear stability; and so on.
Pakistan’s military and intelligence service takes risks that others would not dare take because Pakistan’s generals believe that their nuclear deterrent keeps them safe from regime change of the sort under way in Libya, and because they have discovered over the years that the rest of the world sees them as too big to fail. Unfortunately, they probably are correct in their analysis; some countries, like some investment banks, do pose systemic risks so great that they are too big to fail, and Pakistan is currently the A.I.G. of nation-states. But that should not stop American prosecutors from following the law here as they would whenever any mass killer’s hideout is discovered.
Of course, Mullah Omar and Al Qaeda’s No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, probably also enjoy refuge in Pakistan. The location of Mullah Omar, in particular, is believed by American officials to be well known to some Pakistani military and intelligence officers; Omar, too, they believe, is effectively under Pakistani state control. Perhaps the circumstantial evidence in the bin Laden case is misleading; only a transparent, thorough investigation by Pakistani authorities into how such a fugitive could have lived so long under the military’s nose without detection would establish otherwise. That sort of transparent investigation is unlikely to take place.
“An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” Mahatma Gandhi
Thank you Eric for the post and the audio.
This whole thing feels rather disgusting in the guts, as many readers wrote. The most weird and ‘dangerous’ thing are the pictures of Americans celebrating, honestly.
One very good thing said by the Vatican (!) as official comment: “We must never celebrate death”.
And if this whole thing reveals for a bluff… what a ‘deadly’ consequence will it have for Barack Obama?!?
(Not mentioning Osama – Obama, another weirdness). All in all, disquieting.
e.:
I still say the wild card in this scenario is not al-Qaeda. Its Pakistan.
How Bin Laden stayed incognito and unrecognized or even in suspicion by members of Pakistan’s own forces living in the same friggin’ neighborhood is beyond me. They played both sides.
My other suspicion is that the US, under this scenario would not be interested in leaving tactical weaponry or airships in Pakistan. They still have computers in them.
Yes, these conjectures are wildly speculative, but so is all of our theoritization of what just happened. Put this on top of the Panetta-Petraeus appointments and we have the militarized espionage team of the future of warfare.