Hello again,
I reluctantly took a look at Michael Jackson’s death chart, which is based on a reported 2:26 pm death time. We are still tracking down the particulars of that time, but it seems to be dependable. [Tracy and Cam independently verified that this is the time he was pronounced dead. By all the reports I’ve read, he was dead when paramedics arrived at his home. So this is called a ‘stated time’ chart — it’s not the time he actually died, it’s the time doctors said he was dead, which is a well-established category of data. The 911 call went in at 12:21 pm PDT.]
The story is not as simple as we are being told. Maybe I am prejudiced because (lacking a cable connection in my studio) I clicked in MSNBC’s streaming video and then took a nap, where I was treated (in a semi-conscious state) to hearing the sobbing lawyer tell his story several times, and Al Sharpton’s news conference in Harlem, and so on.
But the astrology is what it is. Jackson’s death chart contains a precise T-square: the Leo Moon is making a square to the Venus/Mars conjunction — it’s less than one degree from a perfect square to Mars in Taurus. Venus and Mars rule the 2nd and 8th houses of the chart and they are on the 8th house cusp. So the chart is very much about the nature and cause of death, a theme of the 8th — and the transiting Moon points right to the central issue. The 8th is also about legacies and inheritances.
More to the point, the Moon is opposing Nessus in Aquarius by one third of a degree — 17+ Leo to 17+ Aquarius. The reason this sends chills down my neck is because the whole subtext of Jackon’s life was his sexual obsession with children. Nessus is about potentially inappropriate sexual contacts. That is my polite, open-ended enough to protect the innocent way of saying it. And the Leo Moon is EXACTLY opposite Nessus in Aquarius. That is the most precise aspect happening at the time of his death, using a basic expanded set of planets and points (24 in all).
Nearby in the house of gambling, art, children and sex (the 5th) we find the triple conjunction of Jupiter, Chiron and Neptune — only with all three planets retrograde in this house, in this chart, it looks really messy. Isabel Hickey noted that the 5th is the house of what she called esoteric karma — I read that as hidden karma. This would be a great way to describe the superstar himself.
I don’t see the involvement of drugs straight away. He obviously had drugs in his system (he was prescribed a lot of them, by all reports) but this looks like an actual heart failure, since the Leo Moon is the operative planet; Leo being the sign of the heart.
Well, I’m late to the game, but I had to throw in my 2 cents on the thread, as I have done much pondering, dancing, feeling, and listening over the past 5 days on the passing of Michael Jackson, whom I am able to respect as an Artist, and empathize with as a Human.
My father recounted a story of seeing young 8 year old Michael perform with the family in Vegas in the mid-60s. He said how blown-away he was by the young boy’s performance and concluded with “You just have to have compassion for him-he had a lot of pain in his life.” That has really captured the essence of this collective experience.
Some of the people in this thread sound like Bill O’Reilly, Mr. Obsessed-With-Villifying-Child-Molesters, or anyone worthy of stoning to death. And I think it brings up a very common type of affliction in our Society-the one who casts the first stone, those who Crucify, those who Hate the Gays but toe-tap under the bathroom stall, those who “just KNOW” someone is Guilty because they can “see it in the children’s eyes.” But Guess What? You don’t know!
Yes, we know this Man was so wounded & self-loathing, he alienated himself from any healthy, stable relationships-and he clearly had an enormous amount of healing he never got around to….Yes, we know he turned himself into a monster physically, beyond the limits of anything relatively normal. And yes, he MAY have hurt children. But if you can’t have compassion for a human being who endured profound abuse himself, then viewed life with flashing bulbs of light in his eyes and an intense vulture-like energy from any adult in his life-it might be understandable HOW and WHY this person may have turned out like he did. Despite that all, there is a light and spirit that came through him that touched Hundreds of Millions, if not Billions of beings on the planet. Does that not speak volumes? (and btw, I’m pretty sure I’ve never heard of any Hitler fan clubs and I’m pretty sure MJ inspired and brought joy to many more than Adolf)….What a comparison! That kind of stretch cannot seriously be believed as just “in the pursuit of awareness.” Sounds like projection 101 of something….
Where are the holier-than-thou people when it comes to Forgiveness?
Astrologers,as human beings, often leave logic at the door and imbue charts with personal feelings.(eric think hard about why you feel as you do and have someone take a look at your chart) Now look at this another way: Let’s say MJ was a pedophile(I do not think he was-in fact I think that he was bisexual, dated over 18 people,was raped repeatedly as a child-by someone close to him- and would never harm a child-but that’s just me.)
Anyway the reality of the situation is this-he may have been many things but an idiot is not one of those things. As everyone has read pedophilia related incidences are global, kiddie porn is a billion dollar industry, and “business trips” to foreign companies have brought down more than a few pedophiles.
So let’s look at it this way: Say he likes boys-why bring them to his home? he could have had them anywhere in the world, he could have had boys with no command of english, he could have found parents that would have willingly sold him their children for nights of madness. He would have known this. People say his “sickness” overtook him. I don’t think so. Also he toured a great deal-who would have gained from bringing him down like this? Someone he trusted. I think he settled because he know how the “news” lies for the sake of readership ratings-cash basically.
(Anyone remember Bush and Cheney SWEARING Iraq and Saddam were responsible for 9/11-then casually saying they weren’t after they left office?) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/02/cheney-there-was-never-an_n_210145.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23228.html
and even earlier
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/sep/12/september11.usa2
MJ knew someone was out to get him. Check for hidden betrayal in his chart. It drove him mad that he could trust very few, if any, people in his life which led to drug dependence.
Also check his chart right before these accusations began-what was the one thing he was working on endlessly? World peace. He’d met with various leaders in regard to this.
Again I’d say check for the betrayal aspects of this mans chart. Really the essence of what he died of was a broken heart. He may very well be vindicated in the future. Already Jordan Chandler has apparently released a statement that he lied under oath about MJ and the molestation because his father didn’t want them to be poor. (Just put the keywords Michael Jackson Jordan Chandler lied and do your own research)We’ll see how it plays out.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977723610
Hey Mystes, yes I did read it – including between the lines…as I said I believe the children and where there is smoke and my intuition…my truth anyway…
Have a great weekend I am off to bake my favourite cake (orange and almond) and do some thinking…
Jacqui,
I wonder, have you *read* this article you posted? It systematically debones any and all “evidence” of molestation. In good journalistic fashion, of course, but the incredulity starts out softly and builds to derision by the end of the piece.
Very nice.
Thanks,
M
I could be wrong, but then again I could be right…check out the link below for the allegations of the ‘innocent’ sleep-overs which included viewing pornography, ‘jesus juice’ (alcohol) and masturbation…yes, very often the abused abuse themselves and the lines get blurred…but i also understand that there are other truths out there and evidence to the contrary… I chose to believe the children…so, we’ll all stay with our own truths…I also realise that I make people uncomfortable, but that is the whole point isn’t it…I promise to continue to do so in the pursuit of awareness…
xxx
J.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/010605jackson.html
Hmmm… 1) Clarity -although it can be daunting- is not anger. My clarity sees accusation and unconscious projection piling on Mr. Jackson as he wends his way through the Between and wonders at its fecklessness.
2) Dancing is not idolizing, we’re just blowing the boy a Kiss.
3) Might want to check this link for advanced silliness. . .
I’m no astrologer — but this I have sensed about Michael Jackson since I was a kid and since he first rose to fame; that is – Has anyone considered that Michael himself was considerably abused? Certainly in many different ways – it became a way of life for him.
Yet he continued to give (to all of us in the only way/s he knew how. Eventually, he was fighting for his “life” so to speak; everything he knew – in terms of reality and self-dignity stripped from him at the time he was accused of child-molestation.)
For better or for worse — We created this “monster”. We are the ones who karmic-ly “owe” him our love and gratitude at this time.
This is all very interesting. I was probably 5 years old when I first saw MJ on TV. He was from a big family, like mine and I think I identified with him in some ways. I left TV behind somewhere, and missed alot of the controversy around MJ and child abuse. What I did hear sounded weird, but I think I never totally bought into the media hype. He lived a painfully public life, something I know I could not endure.
I like the aspect of Karma included here. In believe that in past lives I have abused power and also have been persecuted for being powerful. In any of those situations, all participants play a role, and Karma is part of all of it. I reserve judgment and know that Karma gets the last word.
I prefer to remember the gifts he brought with him and shared with us. Watch him dance, listen to him sing. Honoring his spirit honors the magic we all share.
Oh dear Mystes, I’ve upset you and I am really sorry, but isn’t this below idolizing???
“We (Austin, TX) are going to have a City-wide Thriller Tribute on Sunday. The plan is to gather at the Capital in our best Zombie threads and Thrill while lipsynching (okay, you can sing if you want) MJ’s iconic tune, which will be blasting over the PA system.
Would I kid you about a thing like this? I will try to take pics.
Keepin’ it Weird in the A-town.
M”
and I don’t feel bad at all about being critical and speaking my truth even when people die…yes I know about dying, my parents died very young and have lost many people that I have known and loved…I also know about respect and didn’t think I was being disrespectful in any way…but I always remain objective and yes very critical…and yes, if I am punished in my next life for wanting to ask questions and being critical, so be it…I have never cared about being popular – just real and in pursuit of my truth…
I think debates like this are very important, so I don’t mind if you channel your anger towards me now…I understand…much love to you all…
Eric,
i understand where you are coming from when you say “reluctantly”. So i want to thank you for the work you have done while you were loathe to do it.
Len W
Jaqui, I don’t idolize anyone. Ever. Not MJ, nor any of the creatives I have married, bedded or instructed.
When one of my boyfriends gushed that he had gotten Martin Scorcese’s autograph that day, I just cocked an eyebrow and said: But did he get yours?
I do check to see how our brethren-in-arts are faring under the difficulties of the spotlight. Most of us blow it backwards and forwards because of the projective nature of that spotlight. Love / hate weigh exactly the same in that space. I do neither.
Your remarks are unseemly and vitriolic toward a man who did you no harm, and was very likely innocent of the charges as leveled against him. And who just died. Died. Dying is harder than it looks and the first three days are the hardest. Unless you really want to come back as a celebrity, I would suggest you cut him some slack.
M
But Jacqui, we are all abusers – it doesn’t mean we aren’t lovable or loving, but we are human and not spirit. We pay as we go for every sin and crime. I think Michael Jackson paid, guilty or not. The court said he wasn’t guilty.
He brought a lot of dazzling light into our lives. I felt the same way when John Denver died. Their music will live on. Frankly, I feel that way about Beethoven too – another abuser of sorts.
Poor us.
Hi Mystes and everyone,
I made the analogy with Adolf Hitler just to help people gain some perspective on his whole life and not forget the fact that MJ also misused/abused his power…I feel like people were trying to make excuses for his behaviour and forgetting the children…I know that it is easier to turn a blind eye, but if even one child was made uncomfortable by his actions, that is enough for me. I thought I was just being real…and it is sad as well as utterly ridiculous to see all those people in the media in the US grieving for someone they did not even know properly…How can you love someone and be objective just from seeing them through the media’s eyes or their art/music??? Doesn’t being a good human being count anymore??? What about morals and hurting another human being, or an innocent child??? And why do we put up with it and let famous people get away with shit like this??? Just because they are famous and we like their music??? Or a better question would be, what aspect of his personality/life we identify with and love??? Oh yes we ‘love’ many things…
I realise that I am passing a judgment and are quite comfortable making it…I feel a need to do this as I feel that I am a voice for someone out there that was hurt by his actions…yes I could see through all the veils and kept my focus on the children…I saw it in their eyes and it was enough for me…I am sorry for �vilifying’ your idol, he was my idol as well and I grew up on his music – until the veil was lifted…
I am sorry for upsetting people, but just needed to say this…you are all in my thoughts and I will keep praying for awareness…
Umm…. Jacqui…
” Adolf Hitler was a very creative and artistic person…”
He was neither. He was an unskilled and flatfooted landscape dabbler who *failed* as an artist. His attempt to obliterate any trace of modernism in Germany (die Blaue Reiter, etc) was yet another indication of his psychotic resentment of an art world he was utterly unqualified to inhabit.
Being able to sketch perspective does not and never has made anyone an artist.
As for MJ, he was acquitted and that works for me. I found Martin Bashir’s report to be larded with all of the phobias that inhabit mainstream media when it comes to anything it can’t capture under the monogamy-as-jealosy-machine perspective.
As for the chart insinuating that Jackson was a child molester, isn’t there an ambiguity about molester/molestee in these things? That Jackson was physically abused by his parents is beyond question. And no doubt it twisted him up into some painful shapes. But I am not convinced that at least half of what is called molestation isn’t the fear/shame of the accuser working overtime.
The man is dead, let’s not torment his passing (there’s a process and one that is best managed with compassion) with the same garbage that polluted his time here.
What do you expect to gain from vilifying someone who can’t respond.
M
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/michael.jackson/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
I just caught this on CNN. It’s the 911 call. Worth listening to — it’s currently our only primary source document. Jackson’s doctor was there? At the time? And they need instructions on how to do CPR? Maybe he had one of those new kind of doctors who doesn’t know any actual techniques, he just has pills. Somebody, get a nurse!
Also, this just in from Jonathan Swift —
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/king_of_pop_dead_at_12?utm_source=a-section
Thanks Eric!!!
Yes, let’s not forget the ‘small’ molestation factor…abuse of power is just that -abuse of power!!! I can’t watch tv cause I knew that people would turn him into a ‘God’ now and conveniently forget all the other issues, they are even twisting facts and call him different, eccentric, fragile etc…yes, he was all that, plus he abused children…so I thought I would get some real perspective on Planet Waves, only to find the same people obsessing over his music and worshiping the person.
Again I love his music, but I also have the ability to think clearly and my thoughts go to those children whose lives he destroyed…AND THERE ARE NO EXCUSES FOR CHILD ABUSE – EVER!!! I would just like to remind the readers that Adolf Hitler was a very creative and artistic person…As I said abuse of power, no matter in what form, is still abuse of power…this time around is in a nice package, but until we see through it and adjust our lenses, we will live in a sick and ignorant society…My intuition, hearing all the facts from both sides when the trials were on, the fact that I have worked with survivors of child abuse and that I am a mother is enough information for me to make this conclusion…thanks Eric for making available the astrology that supports this fact and again deliver the truth to us…
much love
J.
Something I noticed in charting this yesterday:
12:26 PM is the time he was officially pronounced dead. The call to Emergency Medical Services was received at 12:21 PM PDT, and since, as far as the EMTs could determine, he was dead when they arrived, we could also look at this as “a” death time.
Uranus 26+ Pisces crosses the local Descendant at around 12:19 PM, square to the MC and loosely square the Sun – Pluto opposition. This could certainly be a picture of abrupt cardiac arrest. The square to the Moon from the Venus-Mars conjunction in the 8th also hints at drugs, with Uranus underscoring the possibility that the overdose/adverse effect (if that is what caused his heart to stop) was accidental.
Although his time of birth is unknown, one of the two more popular charts floating around for MJ gives his Moon placement as 26+ Pisces.
It’s been reported today that family members say he was given an injection of Demerol at around 11:30 AM. At 11:30 AM PDT, Saturn is EXACTLY conjunct the local Ascendant at 16 Virgo 09, square his natal Saturn 19 Sagittarius.
These are some heavy transits for a person in reportedly frail health to bear up under. He was under considerable pressure to meet his contractual obligations, and he REALLY needed the money. He was spending anywhere from 4 to 10 hours a day rehearsing for the upcoming London tour.
I hear you about Nessus — Jackson has mentioned in interviews how disturbing it was for him as a child having to listen to his brothers having sex with groupies in the same hotel room, speaking of inappropriate. But it looks to me as more of a contributing stressor.
Eric replying here from Savas’ computer…
We are talking about Nessus here. Nessus almost always shows up when there is in fact a molestation episode; and its presence points to that potential.
The full delineation is more complex, including various kinds of psychological assault (often ‘invisible’), humiliation, deception and karma coming back to someone. On a structural level, Nessus is about the cycle of karma coming home; Melanie Reinhart sums it up as, “The buck stops here.” But the theme (owing to the mythology of Nessus, which involves a potential rape), and moreover the experience of Nessus in the lives of my clients and event charts, confirms this delineation well enough.
There is a sexual angle. That is reaffirmed from many corners of the chart: Venus/Mars on the 8th; and the packed 5th; and finally the Leo Moon. The Moon, the fact of Leo and the 5th all point back to children. I wasn’t there so I can’t tell you what he did with them, or what he thought about them — I think that with a 12th Pisces Moon much goes on in fantasy — but remember that there are truths, the one established in court, and the ones that really exist. So I don’t count his acquittal for much; we could say the same of OJ. For that acquittal he had his freedom, technically, but he was a prisoner of his own life.
We need to check other asteroids, particularly Child; and the asteroid Hylonome to check for suicide or a suicidal quality. The chart surprisingly lacks the apparent influence of drugs or intoxicants, which is to say, you would want to see a VERY prominent Neptune (immediately rising, Moon’s next aspect — something) to call it an overdose. Pholus would be influential. This chart does not look like a chart about death, however. It looks like a chart about sex.
I would really love to see more comments on the aspects from you — ladies, gents — tell us what you know and what you see. If astrology is so, whatever is so should be at least sketched or reflected in the chart.
efc