…that I did not ask in today’s edition involves intimacy. I’ve noticed that we have a false sense of intimacy with “God” because the government is archiving our emails and shopping lists.
Yet what about this idea that the more details you offer about yourself, the closer you are to people? This might make an interesting game of International Trivial Pursuit were there not such widespread panic about something unexpected happening; in other words, were it not a psychic corner we’ve painted ourselves into with this mix of technology and obsession over presumed safety.
One thing about the technosphere is that it’s all-but-entirely predictable. It’s one of those Aquarian models of pattern establishment that, within very narrow parameters, basically stays the same. The whole environment is set up on an acceleration and complexity curve — the speed always increases, the files get heavier, the games grow more complex. That’s a form of change, but it, too, is predictable because it exists within parameters.
The environment is specifically “safe” because nothing out of the ordinary can occur, such as when you actually meet someone. I have found this particular phobia (“What? We might meet?”) to be halfway between frustrating and (in my demented hobby sociologist way) amusing. There is always the implied notion, “You could be a ____” [reach into your 12th house and fill in the blank: serial killer, Tantric master, loser, someone offering me what I really want, already married, too good for me, etc.].
Speaking of meeting — I have a notion to get out of Kingston tonight and head down to the city — probably the Village — to find something new to do and take some street photos. If you’re in that neighborhood or if you can get there, and you would like to…meet in person…you’re invited to drop me a note. My cellphone has gone missing, so it’s dreams – at – planetwaves.net.
Stay tuned in a little while for Fe Bongolan’s “Fe 911” piece on the forthcoming tax revolt.
Facebook is a bulletin board. Intimacy is about sneaking off behind the billboard and making out. (Figuratively: yes. Literally: possibly).
Intimacy with “God\[dess]”? I can only wish. (9th house Chiron in Pisces, conjunct MC here). Though certainly there are a lot of shitty substitutes available. I’ve tried most of them. My failures are typically quite apparent to everyone else.
So much has been layered on me over a lifetime. I remind myself of an onion. Something’s underneath there, but what? I keep peeling back the layers. Intuition emerges. Creativity emerges. But still awaiting the ultimate fuck (ecstatic union with the divine).
I’m told separateness is an illusion. I’m not there yet, I guess.
maya –
Interesting observation.
I too have a story and for a long time I was stuck in the tale, the re-telling over and over, identifying with it. I was disconnected from my emotions in a big way for a very long time and through, amongst other things, somatic work my flood gates opened. In the aftermath, my story was allowed to finally evolve, reframe, and diminish its power over me greatly.
Intellectualizing was easy for me; I was very much in the head and not the senses. I see in my own experience that intellectualizing and sharing my story through words – heck I even understood it all, the why’s and how’s – was not only a means to remain stuck in it, but also a form of control. Not only of controlling myself, but also controlling others’ perceptions of me. I projected that which I was not through my savvy intellectual understanding. I was not that cool cucumber who seemed like everything was ok irregardless of the details I would share, and little did I know of the raging currents underneath the calm surface. Sure, I might have shed a tear when telling my story, on any given day, but a tear was only the tip of my iceberg.
I recently read in “Midnights with the Mystic”: “Sadhguru made it clear to me that what I think is control is actually suppression.”
That made sense to me. And I think the eating disorders community would benefit greatly by associating that word with eating disorders rather than control. I think it’s a much better fit.
Feeling the feelings, maybe first finding those feelings, and then allowing someone else to see those feelings that arise, is a very vulnerable place to be, especially when you come from a background where trust and security was missing or had been demolished, or both. But when you show someone that vulnerability, you allow someone to witness your true self, that you underneath the projection of everything’s ok. And that is about healing what’s now, in that moment when emotions arise, which in turn will help heal what was. And the best way to do this, in my opinion, is gradually, if you have the opportunity. That didn’t happen with me but I can see the value in it. Little floods here and there versus a tidal wave sort of thing.
I don’t mean to suggest that any of my experience applies to you. It’s just what came up for me when I read your post. It felt vaguely familiar.
Best wishes to you in your journey.
moonrose
sorta ties into what I’m coming to lately. I have always offered lots of details about myself & my story, but I’m finally getting that the telling has made a really convenient emotional disconnect between me and my story. For example, I had always been able to talk pretty dispassionately about my abuse, but only in the past couple months have I been able to feel anything about it. And now that the flood gate is open, whoosh! So yeah, I think there’s a huge difference between the intimacy of the intellectual details and the willing exposure of emotions. Remember how few people really liked Hillary until she cried? But I find I’m not so forthcoming with my feelings as I am with my story… not sure where I stand with that yet, just noticing.
Nance – Entrainment is a fascinating process!!! Bill Thompson gave some talks locally and showed similar video a few years back. Question, as always, where is the threshold? I feel and think about how we, as humans, might now be at that threshold of ameobas joining forces to move obstacles 🙂 large units of being.
PS Thanks for the NVC reminder. I back this modality wholeheartedly; having done some of the training and practicing of usage – it came along in my life when I had just about given up on everyone, including myself, back in 2002/3. Liberals being assholes and calling names as much as conservatives passing judgment and attacking via words, left me stiff.
I feel compelled to wrap this back around, it feels connected to alot of issues. I have been learning about NVC – Non-Violent Communication. It’s basic premise is that there is conflict because basic needs are not being met, and teaches ways to meet needs through expressing feelings and needs. One of the simplest tools for me is asking myself the question ‘Is what I am about to say connecting with the other person?’
Another NVC question is “What is alive for you right now”. Here’s where facebook comes in. In some sense, it is asking me to express to others what is alive for me, what energies are resonating for me. This is powerful, and meets my need to be seen and/or heard. There are loads of resources about NVC on the web – see Marshall Roseberg talks on youtube, or go to the Center for Nonviolent Communication. There are whole lists of feelings and needs, and it is really comforting to know for example that beauty is a universal need (this makes my libra moon sing!)
For a specific example, there is Kristinb’s situation. I can offer empathy: Kristin, you must be shocked. I also see how you are taking some of the responsibility for the situation, which is very healthy. And you can use NVC to approach your Dad – for example tell him “I am feeling (shocked, hurt, sad…) because my needs for (respect, security, privacy…) are not being met. You can provide a connecting request – “would you be willing to (ask for exactly what you need).
NVC is challenging, but has helped me immensely with my relationships (with my husband, daughter, business, family…)
Ok, stick with me here, there’s more. Having a forum to express what’s alive for me, and to hear what is alive for other people helps me see where things are resonating. We have been taught for too long to think our way through life, and disregard our feelings. Yet, when I feel my way, simply by sensing what is alive and resonating, and what feels dead and hollow, I navigate in a very powerful way. We are vibrational, spiritual beings. As a country and a culture we are experiencing a major shift in reality, and the current attempt to prop up what is dead is a big waste of money, time, and energy. Eric’s post about the canopy in Kingston is an awesome analogy. The more we poke at the current system, the more we are realizing how rotten it is underneath. We need to decide if it is worth saving or not (I say not!!).
So imagine a community of humans that move toward what is resonating for each individual, feeling their way to the support and wonder that they seek in life. Eric’s post about polyamorous communities is interesting as well. I have noticed that while monogomy rules limit sexual contact with people I am attracted to, not much prohibits me from connecting with people I am attracted to on an energetic level. I tend to try and connect with people on an energetic level, and it meets needs of mine that my monogamous relationship does not meet. When I expect my marriage to meet all my needs for emotional intimacy, that puts too much strain on that relationship. When I really connect with people (male and female) in my community, so many of my needs are met, that my relationship with my husband becomes a lot lighter.
For more ways to ponder this, go to the TED website and watch the talk by Bonnie Bassler on bacteria communication. It is profound, and when expanded has wide implications. I saw another talk about bacteria awhile back, and the woman explained that in the early days on earth, single-celled organisms like bacteria ruled the earth. But they were always fighting among themselves. At some point they stopped fighting, banded together and started creating larger organisms. What can we as humans create if we stop fighting and start creating something larger than our individual selves where our individual selves are still honored and celebrated?
Heya PT, I made the post as much out of shock as out of the relation to how the internet is both showing how little privacy we have and how much we don’t know that is really going on. I never would have written a letter to mail away for information on my credit history, you know? But, a few clicks and a government law indicating I didn’t need to pay to get it, well, then I had it on my laptop in a couple of minutes.
So, very interesting to me that my father, a man, who I am supposed to be close to by societal standards, is lying and hiding things from me, aka no intimacy, just assumptions on his part, and frankly my part, for the “right” actions to be done. But, this is our angst, no? The “right” actions are debatable (see pics of tibetan monks debating in Tibet or Dharmasala (quite comical really), and we get lost in a world of suffering from there ever so easily.
As for my 8th house, it’s empty, aka balanced, no major energies at play, BUT, it is colored by Aquarius on cusp and Pisces taking over later. So, my chart is a global chart too, as are each and every one of ours.
Dream world last night was about a rich mansion, folks who inhabited it all deceiving one another, and me there, waiting for my sweetie to return from his very important trip. Too funny 🙂
‘I’ve had lots o men use me and my money for their purposes, which btw, I would have done more gladly, had I been asked directly instead of it assumed or insinuated.’
Morning Kristen. Always appreciate your posts on PW – always so honest, from the heart.
That really was not a nice thing to happen to you. It must have been quite a shock about your Dad. (My sister did this to me once, leaving me with outstanding bills etc coming into my house and on my credit score. She denied it when challenged, but somehow that was ok’sh – had it been my Dad? I don’t know…).
Then as I was making some tea, your comment above got me wondering about what happens in your 8th… If this is something that ‘has happened before’, how did you handle it at those times? Did you truly deal with those situations? If there was any doubt about that, are you now being given a chance to face it off once and for all – with a real ‘Daddy’ of an example??? (I’m not suggesting you respond to that in detail here, it was just to see if that resonated for you).
Re the men women thing – I often post about my struggle to go along with any thinking which is men ‘this’ and women ‘that’… I know of and have met both men and women, who use and have used, deception and people to get what they want.
Best wishes to you as ever, H.
Facebook is the smiley below the eye in the pyramid!
Yeah, I hear ya Mystes.
I’ve had lots o men use me and my money for their purposes, which btw, I would have done more gladly, had I been asked directly instead of it assumed or insinuated. And, not so different from your experience recently of losing your deduction. I jump to question, why are kids deductible at all? Why not have tax system that doesn’t do that sort of thing so such choices don’t have to be made?! I’ve given everything away, and will do so, again and again. But, its hard for me to just pretend I don’t know he’s using my credit as joint without telling me. If I can get the CU to ask me for a verbal okay, that would be nice, so really only a half freeze… But, I can’t even believe I found this out (!) especially since they gave me such a hard time a couple of years ago when I asked to borrow some money so I could slide back into job paying $80k+ $20k benefits, but caught such hell, I, well, addressed them directly face to face to discuss VALUES which they couldn’t do, at all.
Maybe the difference comes down to men produce new sperm throughout their life, aka credit is always there, can always be paid… values don’t increase as flow always exists… However, for women, we have a certain number of eggs, shelf life, etc so value goes up over time and we recognize limitation of goods/resources hence try to preserve, stash for future?
We refer to Mother Earth (where we get our sustenance) and Father Sky (where we merge with all and infinity and beyond exists metaphorically)…
Stormi…
I know that experience. Very, *very* well. It is *not* hallucination or projection, it is a different way of understanding the layering and folds of passion. Give it a year or so and you’ll see something very different than you can perceive now.
If you will look up Honoria Starbuck’s opera (Honoria en ciberspazio) you’ll find your story. She modeled it in 1994 off of my story with the Half-husband (el X). I was actually supposed to have performed the role of Honoria (as the final irony) when it was taped in December of 1995, but had to deal with a sudden family emergency that day. So Sandy Stone understudied me.
***
Kristen! as for your daddollarfollies, gurrrrrlll, don’t you get it? Don’t think of him as your “dad” – SEE that it’s the man in your life. I know you are jumpy about generalizing to gender politics, but I’m not going there. I am saying that there’s something afoot with the mens and the question of credit/value.
I can’t see all the way into this yet, but I’ll stay tuned.
Meanwhile, see if you can’t use it differently than putting on the freeze. Just a thought.
Love,
M
Tis interesting the approach, the retreat from intimacy. I find it gets overwhelming at times when there is a mismatch between realms regarding level of information flow, aka intimacy. However, I am glad for it (when not frustrated) as enlightenment is nothing more and nothing less than the ability to deal with any and all information flowing towards and away from one in a peaceful, kind, loving manner.
That said, I just discovered my father, of all people, has been using me as a joint person on his credit accounts via my childhood credit union – a fact I never would have learned had I not just asked for my free annual credit report – available free via governmental law (federal). Huh. Even if such activity has increased my score because it was paid ontime and off, looks like amount for new volvo wagon, not being informed that such move was taken pisses me off at first glance. This is the case, prevailing attitude, that someone else knows better and does not need to inform you. However, if he had died and payments on car stopped and I did not know I was a joint credit account, my credit would have gotten fucked.
Well, I will not tell him I know, but I can shut the practice down on Monday morning via freezing his use of my SSN, joint or not, without verbal approval from me.
Geez. It’s been a rough 3 years wrt parental units… then again, I am sure parental units wonder why they had such ungrateful kids for their lifetime…
Geez.
I’ve been having this same conversation with a friend for the last year almost, “to network, or not”. She’s feeling the same pressure (mostly from family) to become “one” with the collective book of faces, yet resists. I did it briefly only to deactivate, reactivate and finally deactivate all for good. I was on myspace for years, mostly as a band ho (free music!) but I did reconnect with a few old friends, only one of which actually has my number and uses it to keep in touch, albeit thru text messages usually.
To me, it’s feels like although we have multiple ways to “communicate” now more than ever, it feels like we’re really communicating less. I feel/see more of the stage effect moonrose69 describes, it’s the “look at me, I’m cool” performance – which I’ve said before here, reminds me of high school, where for me, no one was ever that cool. I’m still digesting, but is this similar to the �visualist regime’, Mysti?
I agree that it feels fake as well, but I also knew that’s what I was getting into. Cyberspaces provides that filter, one that allows us to selectively share our intimacies or not, as well as the “freedom” to express many of those intimacies in ways we wouldn’t otherwise.
But then I had this “experience”…
Mysti, my thanks to you for posting your article, it kind of helps me put what was really an intense cybersomatic? moment into some perspective, a huge challenge for me this last year. It happened on a lesser known networking site, and it all began with a simple message from him to me. We then started what became a deep dialogue, using poetry (ours and others), music (utoob and files) and images (photography and utoob), creating this shared connection, a participatory consciousness by languaging from the heart. Or so it felt to me, as I would literally vibrate and burn from the core, and this was before we actually “spoke” and saw each other’s eyes. Perhaps it was all just theateros, but I know there were definite intensely intimate moments (aside from skype 😉 that went beyond t/here and now, and that we (at some point) were truly honest about the Love.
I don’t know, maybe it’s my naivete and it was all just a projected surreality like the rest, but it shook me deeper than ever. I had to print as much of it as I could (around 500 messages in 3 months) just to remind myself I wasn’t crazy, that “it” really happened, even if I’m still wondering what the fuck happened. Of course now I’ve memorialized my mortification by trying to keep communicating (and sharing here as well eh?).
So it’s a mixed bag for me. One thing it’s reaffirmed for me is how significant it is to have real communion with any body I love, and that means more (quality) face2face time, than not. The rest are just drive-bys and hit & runs.
I like facebook, but just for family and a few old work friends. This week I was able to explain to a cousin how her grandfather died by carbon monoxide poisoning. She’d heard a not-so-nice version of the story but her mom had already died when she heard it and she didn’t think she had a way to verify it. Some family skeletons are shaking loose, and I count that as a very good thing.
A divorcing niece is friends with her teen kids, and from their notes and a posted sexy photo of a man to their mom, I can see she has all the support she needs. That was a totally unexpected result that I sort of found amazing – that the youngest generation doesn’t view ANYTHING the way we did.
I had deactivated my account at FB and reactivated it again, only briefly mind you, to support PW and join the group. BUT, I just don’t like it – so I deactivated it again!! I love posting stuff up for sharing, and I love reading what everyone else puts up. I live a long way from my friends and family, s’pretty remote here, so it’s good to connect. BUT, I just don’t like it! It feels utterly false and like I am at the mercy of some marketing nightmare.
There’s something of the Valentines Day, Mothers Day, Celebrate the Root Vegetable Day and any other damn thing folks can think about to make you go and spend money on shit you don’t need about it (and encourage more feelings of low self-esteem if you don’t get included) – in that it exists only if you keep it going, even though it’s all bollocks.
It costs nothing of course, but there’s a sense of smug ‘so don’t you Facebook???’ going on, like you’re a chump if you don’t.
I like to be open and I like to meet. End of. But you know, if it works for you, fine and good. It just doesn’t work for me.
Any time your passing Scotland, do stop by and say ‘Hi’. xxxxx
I tend to agree with Nance – seeing facebook as a way to have fun with people who are already friends – sharing stories,pictures, videos, love, day to day musings. And, though my son, who got me into facebook to begin with, has now drawn back because he thinks the government is using it to get all our information, I see women of my age who love it for communicating with children, grandchildren.
I also think that the technosphere is on its way to intersecting with, or becoming, the noosphere (I think someone was going on about that just a few days ago?).
And, although I could only skim over the top, so far, of Myste’s piece on cybersoma, I think she is addressing art in all this, and I have felt that these platforms, places, this techno/noo-sphere, is/are condusive to creating yourself as a new kind of art. it seems to bring out a greater degree of creativity in interfacing with people (IMH) than we tend to put forth in our day-to-day.
I really dont see facebook as about intimacy. More about connection and information and life as art.
Dear Us,
My work with the ACTlab in the 90s (Advanced Communication Technologylab) led me to chairing a panel at the college art association conference on (at the time nascent) telepresence. While in the run-up to that experience, I noticed a number of things about c/space that are still active.
It might be easier to think of this as a completely different dimension. One composed of the two desires: intentional and corporeal. The intentional is what you want to say or reveal, the corporeal is how you reveal or say it.
As a medium composed of desire, the laws are very different than the meat-ium (hahahaha) –
anyhoo, you might want to take a look at the paper I published on the ‘cybersoma’ on the Carnegie-Mellon site for a few more tangy ideas… http://cyber.eserver.org/cybrsoma.txt
Happy Easter(wood)
“Yet what about this idea that the more details you offer about yourself, the closer you are to people?”
For me, I’m not so sure those are equal. I think it’s more of a process.
Sharing on the internet is easy-er as, and I think you suggested it, it’s calculated and deliberate. I only share what I want to share – in most cases it’s closer to what I’m currently capable of sharing – with whom I want to share it with, or at least an idea of whom that might be. And I think there’s enough distance that it feels safe. I recently joined Facebook and when I post a note, which is something I’ve written, I feel squeamish and vulnerable, even with that distance. But I do it anyway just for that reason, and, for the most part and as best I can, let all those worries that rise pass through my thoughts (what will others think? how will they interpret it? will they understand? have i made myself out to be an idiot? on and on).
It also brings me a peculiar feeling when I do meet others face to face after I’ve posted something personal and there’s the possibility that he or she actually read it. It’s never discussed or brought up, at least thus far, and it’s helping me to let those concerns go. More than likely, if not positively, they haven’t given it a second thought since they read it! I know this, but still that feeling rises within me.
So for me, it is one way that I can open myself up and reveal those parts of me that I’ve kept to myself for so long, and in part it helps me uncover aspects that maybe I’m not even aware of just yet. The process of offering details and private thoughts and risking foolishness to facebook friends and facebook friends of friends helps me, I think, move towards the ability to do that more and more in personal accounts, face to face, as well. Something I am also working on.
And there’s something about being open on the internet, posting personal thoughts and items, photos maybe. It can be somewhat like a stage – ta-da, here I am, see me now, don’t you see me? But what’s missing is the eyes of others, the human feedback and exchange in physical form in realtime, so it’s not nearly the same, not nearly as authentic or as personal or as real, perhaps. Or, as overcoming. To me, I inquire as to whether it counts at all. But it does help.
I keep an eye on my tendency to remain safe behind a computer screen and more and more make a concerted effort to get out and meet people in person. Whether it’s in groups or one on one. Given my travelled path to this point, it’s not an easy task at all but it’s very important to me. And, had I been closer to NYC last night, I would have taken you, Eric, up on that offer to hang out and shoot photos. I hope someone did.
what is any of this, but intimacy? the reason that i ever reach out, is to establish some sort of intimacy. how we accept one another in this is the crux.
Dani Katz, a friend in LA, offered a theory why humanity or a swath of it needs to be and may in fact be becoming polyamorous now. It’s about learning to weave community. To weave our community back together and have a true, compassionate tribalism emerge in a world where we set aside jealousy and work together to help us get our needs met.
This is the perfect question, thanks for all the brainfood. I got on facebook a few years ago because a bunch of my (large) family got on to keep in touch. My ‘friends’ have grown immensely just over the past 6 months. This has more to do with people I know joining the social networking scene than me actually making more friends. What I like about facebook is the ability to connect with other people’s lives. I know more about what my friends and family are up to and into than I did before facebook. Is it intimacy? It is definitely connecting. Now there’s a place where I can keep up with the fast pace of people’s lives, and give them a quick taste of mine, without alot of time and effort. I can see where facebook could become a timesuck, but haven’t gone there.
Recently, there’s been more awareness about the implications of facebook and privacy – not just on PW. I see where it pushes me to be authentic, and open about all the facets of my life. This is a challenge, because I have contradictory aspects. I fretted slightly about joining the Planet Waves facebook group because some people know me as a scientist, and currently, astrology is not accepted as scientific. I decided that I have great answers to questions about that inconsistency in my personality, should anyone care to ask. I chuckled when I saw your facebook tagline included ecology, my chosen profession!
Opening a dialog about some of these contradictions and inconsistencies seems like a step in the right direction. Maybe facebook/social networks can help us all question taboos, learn more about alternative lifestyles, learn to be more accepting and open about who we really are inside. Maybe I live in a land of fairy tales and make believe.
Yes. One reason I’m turned off by Trivial Pursuit and MySpace and sharing my selfPorn on the WWW is that none of this is a part of knowing others nor is it intimacy.
I try hard to participate – literally – in activities like playing Trivial Pursuit – and my MySpace page is virtually unlooked at it’s just so artificial — if the other people involved don’t have some depth to their Being, then why bother?
Sadly, this caveat of needing people to be intimately real has kept me from living a – um – full? life socially.
Oh how I miss the village. My last apartment there was on Bedford near Houston and 6th – I’m sure it’s condos now. I think I shall reminisce for a bit. Enjoy!!! I look forward to your pictures.
Try Second Life – you never know what you might meet there 😉