The standoff in Egypt…the ambush on women’s rights…conservatives and liberals working together…all set in the context of the USA Sibly chart and the Cancer New Moon — that’s what’s on tap in tonight’s Planet Waves FM. The link the free preview of the Cancer birthday reading is below. And if you love this program, here’s a link to become a member of Planet Waves FM.
Thanks, Patty!
When I read your comment on Len’s blog I said to myself, “Patty gets it. I wrote it for her.”
A woman who is in charge of her body is a free woman. I used birth control when it mattered and now it is not an issue at 57. Men don’t get pregnant so I understood right away it was up to me.
And I have walked my talk whether it be raise millions of dollars for the homeless, rescue a dog at gun point or go out of my way to help a stranger. This is how I have chosen to live and no other way makes sense to me. But then again, I know the secret that we live in an abundant Universe and there is always enough.
Mia
What a good discussion!
Polarization is THE underlying challenge to almost all problems in society. The idea that “sides” have to be taken and then battle lines drawn and each “side” tries to outdo the other is the old model that no longer works. It is “either/or” thinking that will be our ruin and we need to learn how to circumvent this limited way of seeing/acting/thinking if we are going to survive as a planet and as a species.
We have been shaped by this social architecture that can only frame things as “either/or” at almost every turn (unless you’ve been lucky enough to receive a Steiner/Waldorf education). The dominator-polarity model is part of the Patriarchal paradigm that has been the default system for human organizations for far too long now. It uses fear as the basic weapon and tool to enable which ever “side” gains power over the other “side” to keep that power. Escalations of energy, power, rage and violence are dynamic ways to keep the see-saw going…but is any of this really (r)evolutionary? All of this is based on competition and while some would argue that this is the only way evolution works, humans are special in that we can make choices with our intellect and consciousness which can speed up (or slow down) the natural evolutionary processes that are always at work here on the physical plane.
The podcast makes a hint at what is key for enhancing our collective and planetary chances for survival: changing the paradigm means finding common ground and working from there. It means that we must listen to the “other”. In our case, we must listen to the Republican Right and be brave enough to ask “what do we have in common”? Mia’s posts show us that it is possible to defend a women’s right to choice AND embrace respecting Life. So there is an opening….loving and respecting Life is one thing that we share in common. There are probably other issues as well if we’d all care to listen in an honest dialog (which I know is very hard to do with these hot-button issues). So how to move from there?
I’ve often thought that a better solution for the abortion issue would be to have a new kind of Women’s health center…where first and foremost high quality contraceptive services were offered for free. Planning for families is in societies best interest, yet the God issue comes in and tries to mandate. If we can bring the “right” and the “left” in under the same roof and let each view offer their support and services from a place of compassion for all involved; women, men and children, what a difference this would make! In addition to free contraception, high quality medical services for other women’s health issues (including abortion) could be on offer along with adoption agencies, spiritual counseling (of several denominations) along with regular psychiatry and other services geared towards helping women learn about their bodies and giving compassionate and clear information about what options are available. Then let women decide for themselves with their partner (if appropriate) what choice works best for them. Remove the fear and shame and let the compassion and care come in and we’d see a whole different scenario. I have no doubt that abortion rates would actually drop dramatically if this kind of center were created. Isn’t that what we’d all prefer anyways?
With Saturn in Scorpio it is no wonder we are seeing all these attempts to turn back the clock on the sexual revolution. Fear, law, time, rules, duty and obligation, conservatism etc. are all parts of the Saturnian tool chest and right now those tools are working hard in all things Scorpio and we’re not just talking sex but the use/abuse of power and secrets too. With Pluto plowing thru Capricorn we should not be at all surprised to see these two rather old-school archetypes trying hard to combine forces and have their way. We must not forget Pluto’s “story”… that archetype carries the energy of using rape as a tool to get what he/it wants. I know we like to think of Pluto in the more positive/New Age way… regeneration, revelation and all that but we must not forget the shadow material that is present in this archetype and we should not be surprised when we see it manifest in cycles of public struggle. Saturn in Scorpio with Pluto in Capricorn tell us a LOT about the struggles we are all undergoing now, just as much as any of the other monumental astrology that the map is showing us. Public sentiment moves in waves and tides, that is its nature. We advance in consciousness and then we retreat…hopefully not quite as far back to where we started…but these cycles should not surprise us when they happen.
When I feel weak in the knees (Capricorn!) about the politics of the day I step back for a bigger picture. I recall that a thousand years ago the Vikings were the super-power of the western world. While I won’t debate the historical accuracies regarding what we know of their culture, suffice it to say that it was a very brutal time in our collective history. Theirs was a dominator culture in almost every way. And yet, look now at what that heritage has evolved into… the Scandinavian countries are some of the most egalitarian, truly democratic, gender-neutral, and eco-oriented on the planet. Denmark is the often the highest rated country for “happy” citizens. Norway boasts some of the healthiest populations in the world. Sweden is home to the Nobel prizes, most notable the PEACE prize. Their countries have some of the lowest poverty rates in the world.
If a culture like theirs that was SO aggressive and dominant can evolve as they have, then we can too….maybe even faster than they did since they have now created the Morphic field and we can use that to evolutionary advantage.
Mia, Some people only read the first and last sentences. So “disposable society” and “lack of responsibility,” and now all of a sudden it’s on you to rear the unwanted kids; or, shut up. We are quickly becoming an illiterate society too.
My mother always said…
OH WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE, WHEN AT FIRST WE PRACTICE TO DECEIVE…
PEACE and LOVE
(headin to whole foods now):)))
Patricia
To those I have offended, I apologize. I am going on the assumption that we are all equally resourceful and of course, for whatever reason, we are not.
What is clear in this discussion is the fact that our authorities and those in power care less and less for the concerns of the average person. Their needs are being met and their pockets are being filled to overflow while the average person continues to struggle and has little extra time to turn to larger issues. If we do not shift the focus and make the space to make a stand that each of us finds comfortable within our own lives, we will not create a better future for ourselves and future generations. We need to find and connect to our righteous anger, the creative anger that can be channeled to build something better. We are the only ones who can do that for ourselves. Anger has its place. Violence does not.
Len writes about road apples. I have shoveled a lot of shit for my two horses who have recently transitioned and in my own life. But I know for certain that within that manure there is opportunity for growth, it provides the nourishment for new growth to sprout. So, as Amanda and others have written, make a stand in whatever way you can. There is no time or room for backseat drivers.
Mia
With all due respect Mia, I was not referring my initial response to this blog directly to you. I was addressing Eric in that he had wondered where other sides of the conversation were. I did absorb and respond to comments that were made here and to the issues in general, and I stand by my response.
In my second post I did address you directly, and stated my agreement that we do indeed live in a “disposable society” (although you and I may see the intent of that differently), and thanked you for your input here.
Based on your subsequent posts, I felt this clarification was in order.
Linda
And I have written elsewhere in my comments that every woman has the right to choose. Get disgusted. Get motivated. Do something.
Thank you!
Okay- I’m disgusted. Mia keeps posting the same bleep over and over- if you’re pregnant and don’t want to be, you shouldn’t have put yourself in that position in the first place. That’s some form of wisdom, apparently, to her. It echoes the “Just Say No” campaign.
The bare bones facts are that the drive to reproduce is one of the strongest on the planet. The other is the drive to stay alive. Every life form is hard-wired to both, or their particular species would have died out.
Maybe you always “should” always have contraceptives in your pocket. But life happens- even using contraception. Just because a woman gets pregnant doesn’t mean that she now belongs to some system imposed by the state. Or by Mia.
Mia, if you were offering to provide for every unwanted baby born, I would say you have a right to impose your will on any woman who agrees to complete her unwanted pregnancy and give the baby to you. But since you aren’t “walking your talk”, and since not every pregnant woman would agree to that anyway- why don’t you just choose for yourself, and let other women choose for themselves? The issue is not safe and legal abortion, as others here have pointed out. The issue is the freedom of each individual woman to choose what she herself wants and needs.
“I find great concern with opinions that say we do not have rights to own our bodies (because we must be “responsible” insinuating that everyone actually knows where babies come from and can find a CVS in time – and can afford the condoms. And we’re forgetting the anti-sex education all states but mine have for indoctrinating children….all issues you have addressed here time and again) — and suggesting that a woman must pay for a moment of passion (or rape) with her own life one way or another. (but not calling that blood-letting).’
Linda,
Nowhere in my comments did I say abortion should be illegal or that someone should be victimized yet again by being denied an abortion after having been raped. All of my comments were directed towards the interconnection between war and countless other things we do as a society that are mindless and need to change. Like I said, we all need to walk our talk.
Mia
Mia,
I, for one, do not find the concept that we live in a “disposable society” shocking. Thanks for the reflection.
Linda
As I posted elsewhere, there are free dental clinics in Portland,Oregon (and all over the country) that it took me less than five minutes to find and one telephone call to receive endless information on assistance. I am in Vermont and simply called 211 in Oregon. A free call. If someone wants to find free condoms or other forms of contraception they are available. We plan in retrospect because it requires too much of ourselves to think in advance and avoid problems in the first place. If over four decades ago my mother had the wisdom to offer me the pill then solutions are certainly available now.
Posting on a blog is not a solution. As Amanda wrote, if you are so concerned do something constructive about it. I have no doubt there are endless places one can volunteer to educate young people about sex and distribute birth control. Having an opinion requires nothing from any of us. Walk your talk.
In the meantime, if the situation in the Middle East and Africa continues as it is going we won’t need to worry about the abortion issue.
We live in a disposable society and one has to be deaf, dumb and blind to not see it. If you find that shocking then perhaps you are not paying attention.
Does anyone else find it amusing that at the time when the Bolivian President’s plane was forced to land in Austria (5 other countries in Europe wouldn’t let him land) and then have his plane searched for Edward Snowden, transiting Pholus (small cause, big effect) was conjunct Hildago (“contact with Latin American, Mexican or Spanish peoples”) in Sagittarius (foreign countries)?
be
In the 1920’s the Equal Rights Amendment was introduced to Congress for the first time. It was reintroduced in the 1970’s and went to State legislators for ramification. Eleven years later it had not received the requisite amount of ramifications and so failed to pass. When was the last time you heard anyone even mention the possibility of it once again being presented to Congress? We are now at 2013, and it doesn’t even cross the radar anymore.
When I read through the Declaration Of Independence that Eric posted today, I felt a common sensation that often occurs in me: a boiling anger that women weren’t on the radar then, either. Of course, people have told me through my life that “men” means us all, women included. But language not only has power but it reveals power. Men does not mean us all equally. It refers to woman, subliminally as an extension of.
If the ERA would pass, then all the proposals to yank women’s reproductive right’s away would be a moot point. But we are still second class citizens here, like much of our globe.
The male female polarity has been askew for thousands of years. The consequences show now in our air, water and food.
Our very bodies and natures has been repeatedly sublimated so as to reflect the expectations of culture. “Good girls (not women, girls) don’t like sex.” Why are we, as a people so afraid of sex? Perhaps because that is an area where women still do have power? And so, by restricting the ability to make their own intimate choices, a choke hold is created. An invisible yoke.
I honestly believe pass the ERA and then we can have a balanced dialogue on how to create a future that holds us all.
I am more shocked by some of the conversation than I am at the lack of it. I am always surprised when people voluntarily choose to give up their power.
aword:
No truer words were ever said.
Hi Eric. No apathy here. Just haven’t listened to your FM yet, not been to PW yet today.
I find great concern with opinions that say we do not have rights to own our bodies (because we must be “responsible” insinuating that everyone actually knows where babies come from and can find a CVS in time – and can afford the condoms. And we’re forgetting the anti-sex education all states but mine have for indoctrinating children….all issues you have addressed here time and again) — and suggesting that a woman must pay for a moment of passion (or rape) with her own life one way or another. (but not calling that blood-letting).
And of course as you point out, all the other angles and aspects of this issue of women’s rights.
No – I am more shocked by some of the conversation than I am at the lack of it. I am always surprised when people voluntarily choose to give up their power.
I once got so fed up with this situation that I ordered a box of copies of Our Bodies, Ourselves and gave them to a bunch of young women I knew. There is still one copy on the bookshelf in the eminently Catholic Dominick’s Cafe.
I totally agree with you, Fe.
“Even Wendy Davis was offering “hope” as an alternative to anger at this week’s “stand with wendy” protest in Austin — I was pretty stunned at that. My response was: no, you’re not ready for hope. it’s time to stay pissed off for a while, long enough to distract you from that latte.”
Unfortunately eric, Wendy Davis has to deal with a male-identified structure — the Texas legislature, and a national culture which by and large is still male identified.
It is shocking when I see the virginity cults, the father-daughter balls, and the inverse of that universe – the cutting, the pressure to sexualize before you’re emotionally ready — these are reactions from the pressure to conform to a structure which still demonizes/suppresses the girl/woman. No honest relationships with others or self. Or the ability to even communicate what you’re feeling because you’re not given the language to what you’re feeling inside.
I have in my desk a list of questions from 6th, 7th and 8th graders from Planned Parenthood’s education program, and its disheartening to see that the kids whose questions are on those little pieces of paper probably never step foot within a decent mile to conversing with their parents about what sex is, or were told something awful about sex and then told to forget about it. A kid being a kid, once given that, you’re bound to go out and find out about it yourself.
Having been in forums with younger women seeking good information on health and other sexual issues, there is a hunger for information there that cannot be suppressed. They want to know. The more we hang back from keeping the debate moving forward on our health, the more we cheat them out on the role models we had when we were growing up in the 70s. Even if we can’t be there for ourselves because we can’t or won’t because we’re tired, we still need to be there for them. Even if, by nothing else, being a role model.
Abortion has always been the key issue used to skew the pro-choice movement’s argument to exist. At this point, as polarizing a debate that its been, the use of abortion as the keystone to use against women’s reproductive freedom as a whole has been highly successful.
When we stand for abortion, we play right into the hands of the Christian Right. What we need to put face front on the argument for reproductive freedom is the right for women to know about what their medical options are for fertility, reproduction and birth control, family health issues as well as breast, uterine and cervical cancer. These are primary women’s health issues. Sadly not enough focus is placed on them, keeping the issue of women’s and family wellness hot button, emotionally-driven, and criminally under-informed. Not even Planned Parenthood puts itself in the position of promoting themselves as primary “abortion providers.” In the instance of Texas, PP is a principal health provider for indigent women and their families.
What we lose in the struggle to find clarity in the instances of anti-choice legislation in Texas, North Carolina and Kansas is the advocacy for all women’s health issues. Not just abortion. All women’s health issues. As well as comprehensive sex education in schools that will help prevent pregnancy and STDs.
The feathers of all of us need unruffling and get to the meat of what has been used to divide us. It’s not about my ability or inability to get an abortion, but about who is going to screen me if I suspect I have fast-growing fibroids? Breast cysts? What about the advice I need if I am undergoing a difficult pregnancy? Or what if I can’t get pregnant? And all the other maladies that happen to women…
If we cannot unearth enough of our anger from the political collapse over the abortion issue, maybe we should focus instead on everything happening in the states as an effort to detach women from their bodies. These men want that decision making power over us. The argument should not be just pro-life v. pro-choice — which gives the lifers a subliminal upper hand. The argument should become one of women’s freedom versus vassalage.
Sex and violence. Pluto and Mars or Mars and Pluto. 8th house. The space between relationships and religion.
Meanwhile, back in 1965:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brNby5IFDnA
With a Scorpio Moon and Mars and Saturn in Sag I have no problems expressing anger and using it as fuel to drive me forward with my projects and what I believe is right. I have used my anger this way since a small child. My father, Leo sun and four other planets in Leo, always said I was the only person who could tell him off and really make him feel it and I started as a two year old. Whether it is taking a stand on the issue of homelessness, animal rights or a woman’s right to choose, I will be there. However, that does not mean that I believe abortion should be used as a method of birth control when other options are available. Education is vital and should begin early. I am 57 years old. As a new teen my mother told me if I wanted to be sexually active to let her know and she would put me on the pill. That was a long time ago. 43 years to be exact. Perhaps at the time of Roe VS Wade some of the important questions were not being asked. We are being challenged on every front and we have been complacent for decades. There are no cliff notes for what we are going through now. We are being called to take a stand. Whether or not we will remains to be seen.
We live in a disposable society.
I will say that Rocky Anderson and the Justice Party have just finished work on their platform and it is the soundest, sanest example of what should stand for human rights in this country we have ever seen. I am proud to be working with them.
Mia
This conversation is stimulating, or maybe triggering! I am going to blow through some thoughts inspired by the totality, not necessarily directed at any one person’s comments.
Thoughts and patterns of thought and feeling are also violence. Violence is not limited to physical attacks.
Anger expressed is not itself violence, nor even is rage. The intense flight or fight response feels violent inside, and is very scary to the people who feel it. Women are terrified of their own anger. Women are terrified of men’s anger. Men are terrified of women’s anger. Perhaps the word is Men hate women’s anger. I don’t know how men feel about men’s anger, or their own. Anyone?
Anger breeds violence when it meets resistance, and this includes suppressed anger which causes violence to self, and insidious violence dripping acidly through relationships and culture.
Western culture is built on violence. This is a pattern of competition, domination, conquest. This is at the root of the war on women and on the people via control of their bodies, mostly around sex. Sex has been polluted by violence and conquest. The movement to control women is violence: abortion, and the abolition of abortion. Design of contraception an the unavailability of contraception. Ignorance vs education — truthful, useful education — about sex and sexuality. Shaming over sexual choice and behavior. Violence in childbirth, and takeover of normal childbirth by a violent medical system. Infant circumcision. The effect is to return women to the status of property.
The only righteous response to this takeover is to take a stand. To channel rage and anger into action. And to do it together. Women together, and Men with us. How to express it? some of us will march and shout, and be called names by public officials. Some of us will get arrested. some will write and sing and paint. Some will teach. Some will vote and run for office. We better all wake up. Including me, safe in my beautiful meadow in Maine.
I have more to say, but have run out of time. Later.
And I personally would add that after having been so angry for so long, to so little effect, I’m exhausted. The futility and “suppression of female anger” has just driven it deeper, where there are profound risks to reengaging with it.
One of my models (Johanna, who did the photos used in The Queer Frontier article) was last semester taking a women’s studies class, the theory of which is that patriarchy has influenced and severely curtailed women’s ability to get angry.
This in turn has shaped the whole character structure of many, many women, because many behaviors are added in compensation for lack of willingness or ability to express anger in a healthy way*. I don’t know the professor’s position on this exactly but we do see this manifest in a diversity of sneaky ways — where simply saying “I am angry” would work great. it’s come to the point where that inability to speak out about issues that affect oneself, one’s daughters and one’s sisters has become a kind of toxic apathy that will exact a heavy price if not addressed.
In support of women, their sisters and brothers will need to hear out that anger, not take it personally and not shame anyone for being angry. This will take some guts for both men and women, both of whom tend to suppress female anger. I am aware that the spiritual rules say that “anger in any form is not justified” (Course in Miracles, for example) but I would offer an edit: suppressing anger is more toxic than expressing it; and we need to watch when anger itself becomes toxic or abusive. Even Wendy Davis was offering “hope” as an alternative to anger at this week’s “stand with wendy” protest in Austin — I was pretty stunned at that. My response was: no, you’re not ready for hope. it’s time to stay pissed off for a while, long enough to distract you from that latte.
This theme is at the heart of the matter where such a disgusting power grab is happening as we watch and as most people stand around looking right at it.
—
*as part of this, the burden of anger has shifted to men, about whom many women say often have anger issues. but there is a real imbalance here, when the ‘license’ to feel an emotion is distributed unequally by sex. this relates to the prohibition on men being sensitive, receptive or crying, which is typically projected onto women and girls.
Eric,
I have spoken to the issue.
Thank you.
Mia
“You want to see less abortion. That means better education and greater access to pregnancy prevention methods, both of which are being restricted by anti-abortion forces.”
exactly.
from what i can tell, significant factions of the people trying to clamp down on abortion availability are using it as a bit of a red herring: in many cases, they’re the same people who have shut down sex ed for students; the same people who have made abstinence-only “education” a condition for African countries to receive US aid for AIDS/health care; the same people who advocate for the death penalty for criminals…
the issue is that they are anti-sex and anti-women, not “pro-life.” if they were truly “pro-life” and “anti-violence” or “anti-sex,” then the would not be against sex education, responsible use of birth control, masturbation, etc.
and on, and on.
not all of these people are necessarily pushing for the same things, but there is tremendous overlap. from what i can tell, the bigger issue is moral hypocrisy around sex and killing, and the oppression of women on many levels. i think until we can see that bigger issue and connect the dots, we’ll collectively stay distracted by abortion.
i think once we can collectively act in ways that show value for life — such as advocating for sex education and giving young people the support and resources they need to make good choices — abortion will become much less of an issue.
unfortunately, that looks like it will be a long, long road. in the meantime, we have women’s health and rights to stand up for, so that we don’t end up without the means for moving forward along this frustratingly spiral path.
“abortion rights are being limited, birth control is being limited, and rapists are gradually being given paternal rights over the children conceived in the rape”. Yes, I agree with you Eric – it’s totally shocking, and I hate to think what could happen in the future if it it isn’t checked now.
I am astonished at something. The readership of this website is at least two-thirds women…and yet there is not more concern, anger or even outrage at this bald power grab against women.
We have a situation happening before our eyes, right now, where abortion rights are being limited, birth control is being limited, and rapists are gradually being given paternal rights over the children conceived in the rape. No concern for the world your daughters are emerging into? No concern for your grandchildren?
You may think that this is fine because you don’t live in Kansas, Texas or Ohio. But I would remind you that the Griswold case involved Connecticut, that the Tea Party is in control of Maine and that plenty of Republicans in NY would love to see abortion criminalized and “abstinence education” put in place of real sex education.
Mia, you are speaking in theory.
You want to see less abortion. That means better education and greater access to pregnancy prevention methods, both of which are being restricted by anti-abortion forces.
Please speak to the issue. Thank you.
Bless you, dear Mia. You have a big and generous heart – the care and love you give, unstintingly to so many in need, is an example for me.
Called again to add something to this discussion.
Anger and frustration are feelings. Feelings are transient. We experience them and they pass. Sustained anger and hatred left unchecked becomes something else and violence is born. As we co-create it is important that we be as clear as possible in our thinking and our choice of words. Thank you Lizzy, for showing this to me.
If there is a problem in our home we have the choice to turn to feng shui for a solution. We analyze the situation, determine what elements need to be moved, rearranged, thrown out. This is often enough to change our daily lives in extraordinary ways. We, as a world, have no concept of what it feels like to live one hour yet alone one day without blood letting. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Will the feeling of release and relief from experiencing the freedom of no blood letting on the planet provide inspiration and motivation enough to stop doing what we are doing? We are asking people to do and become something they have idea exits at this moment in time because it has probably never happened in human history.
The Divine Feminine is rising. Birth control should be available to everyone as a human right.
Happy 4th of July.
Mia
Thank you Lizzy.
What you hear is not violence it is frustration. There is a difference. Violence would be me physically attacking someone on their way to getting an abortion, something I would never do. And I do not presume to read the heart of a woman who has had an abortion for whatever reason. That is her decision.
Each day, we are asked to make a conscious choice in how we will use our energy. I am standing in support of all life whether that means catching a bug that got into the house and putting it outside or choosing to practice birth control.
If our current round of “entertainment” is not telling us something with the majority of movies and shows offering violence and apocalypse and vampires and zombies, then the message quite frankly, might never be understood.
Mia
But Mia, there is also a certain amount of violence in your words of condemnation. We all carry violence within ourselves, and we cannot demand a peaceful world until we address the volence we carry in our hearts as well.
I see what is happening on a much larger level, involving all of the issues I have described above. That is my opinion. Consciousness equals life. We do not respect life in countless ways. Abortion is only one piece in the entire framework of all that is happening.
I believe women should be in control of their own bodies and in most cases that includes taking responsibility for their own birth control. A night of passion should not be the prelude to an abortion because a baby is unwanted. Use birth control. Too tired to run to the drug store for condoms? Not a good enough reason to have an abortion.
Chickens are born into a world of pain and experience pain and filth virtually every moment of their existence, unless they are fortunate enough to be born into a family that provides them with appropriate love and care. Just another expression of our blood lust.
I stand by what I wrote: until the blood letting stops we will not be able to raise our consciousness to the extent that we are supposedly working towards.
Well Mia, the battle has shifted in Kansas for instance to curtailing birth control, since now in that state life allegedly beings at fertilization. Romney campaigned on overturning Griswold v Connecticut, which defines the right to privacy and which protects the right to birth control having nothing to do with abortion (Roe is a decade later). The same forces that are working to remove abortion are also working to remove pregnancy prevention methods, to ban sex education, to require ultrasounds for IUDs, to define the pill as an abortion and to require women to bear the child of their rapist.
This discussion is not about abortion. It’s about who controls and possesses women.
Banning abortion does not stop abortion. It only stops regulated, safe abortion, pushes abortion later into the term, and causes pain and chaos all around. I have relatives who had abortions on the kitchen table because no alternative was available. That is not responsible in any sense of the word.
Miaferoleto,
Exactly!
And innate aggression.
We are a disposable society. We are being pressed, regardless of our beliefs, to address the issue of blood-letting here on earth. Whether it be war, abortion, factory farming, euthanizing animals as a means of controlling their population, we take the late and easy way out. How we expect to raise consciousness when we allow blood to flow to the extent that it does is beyond me. I support, 100%, a woman’s right to choose. However, using abortion as a means of birth control when so many other, easier methods of birth control are available, just feeds right back to our own lack of responsibility.