Researching an article for a monthly edition of Planet Waves, I discovered this.
2349 “People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single.”135 Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:
There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others…. This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.136
2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.
Offenses against chastity
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”138
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.
2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.
2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.
I see. Thanks for clarifying, Carrie.
Michele,
I have amended the post to read that that part was quoted from several men I spoke to on this subject back in the 80’s. They also said, “wrap a flag around her head and do it for your country” (referring to what they woud consider an unattractive woman). They also said “women are pickier” and that they hated it that “women expect us to wine and dine them” and that even with all that, “there’s no guarantee of getting laid.”
“… even if she is ugly.”
i found these odd few words… well. odd. especially here.
Eric,
This is exacty what I have been talking about lately to people I don’t even know. Women have GOT to be honest about what we need and want. I liked sex, was very assertive about getting it in my twenties, and had a lot of fun sex because of it. Yet women (and publicly some men) castigated me for it.
Women do have something men want and because women are by nature pickier (we do get pregnant after all, which is life changing for us) men cannot get what we have as easily as women can get what men have. I always say, stand a man and a woman on a street corner and see who can get laid faster and more often. The woman of course because men will fuck her (if she is willing) “even if she is ugly” (quoted from several men I spoke to on this subject back in the 80’s).
Women feel that male strength (they can rape us) and patriarchy (they can financially control us) have dominated us for too long so we use the only thing we have; our pussy which we know men want. Yet two wrongs don’t make a right so in using our power over men, we are just making things worse for both sexes.
In the changes that are happening right now, this change between women and men from antagonistic users of one another to honest facilitators who work with one another must happen.
AWord: I second your clarified comment(s). perfect. I also am nodding my head with you, Shamika.
then specifically I’ll grab AWords “giving oneself freely” added to Shamika’s “Know Thyself” and we’ve got a potent combo for “direct(ing)/shap(ing)/intensify(ing) this energy”. – in “biblical” proportions…of course.. (wink!)
personally, not into selling or buying these days. more into creative win/wins. bad girl/good girl? I say: don’t worry your pretty little head over it: no label required here, I’ll just peel it right off. I dislike labels (esp. those annoying ones that don’t come right off, but leave “adhesive residue” behind, then I have to get all Virgo on them-pain!! [not to be confused with ‘adhesive residue’ resulting fr. aforementioned d/s/i Energy]!)!
Mermaid, finding out what you don’t resonate with is HUGE Knowledge. it can be used to progress you right along to your dreams by knowing when to “NOT take that road”, and choosing paths to your personal bliss. it sounds like you are entering the barter/trade economy with your new living situation. Welcome! it may feel a little strange in the beginning, a lot of the strangeness has to do with being comfortable being a grateful receiver as well as a giver. trust me, whatever you decide to help out with will be appreciated, and you don’t have to feel guilty about that! just some thoughts of mine….
peace Everyone!
back after food, need food!
Dear Burning River: Feels so good to receive some affirmation, compassion, and encouragement. Thank you.
mermaid
One other thing about my Moon/Pluto conjunction in the solar return 8th house: Although Eric’s comments about prostitution have crossed my mind from time to time, I’m now considering a more nurturing possibility, also an exchange. Am considering renting a room from another female in another city, sharing space, if we are compatible. Yes, I’d be paying rent, and perhaps there would be some other exchanges as well, such as walking her dog when she’s at work. And I’d be able to play her beautiful piano, and enjoy her lovely home, for a reasonable price, while I pursue my writing and research.
Guess I’ve gotten a little off-course here, when the blog started out with Roman Catholic patriarchal sexual repression and manipulation of women. But for me personally, this is a natural progression. Thankful, in a certain sense, for my traditional upbringing, blessing the past with love and letting it go, and moving in another direction. Sometimes, knowing what doesn’t work can propel you toward what may work, if you’re willing to go with the flow.
And with so many planets in both my natal and solar return charts in the 11th house, no wonder I can so readily say, “Why not?”
I’d appreciate feedback. Like the way the Planet Waves folks think. Thanks.
Absolutely, Eric, I agree that all sex is an exchange. I just wish the rest of the world would be brave enough to admit it, to be up front about it, and to quit trying to shame those of us who say so out loud.
The eloquent, to-the-point comments here are SO refreshing. Thank you, all.
By the way, my solar return has Moon conjunct Pluto in the 8th house. I am learning what this means for me, this year, already. Sex, death, issues with my mother around this, with other women around this. It’s a challenging time personally.
The whole Eris-Varuna thing also–Interestingly, in 2008, my divorce was finalized, I bought my own place, and began to assert myself as an individual, finally. Let the chips fall where they may. Funny, also, how all these former lovers have come out of the woodwork recently (occasional phone calls, e-mails), curious about what’s up with me, and if I refuse to give them any specifics, they get really nasty. Well, I know these folks are coming from a place of jealousy–How am I doing what I’m doing? And, how dare I do so without THEIR “help”?
Look, I really appreciate the support of others, and I recognize that we do all need each other. I only want to deal, now, with other similarly personally responsible people. People coming from a place of love, of connection to the Divine. Let these folks from the past, not just my personal past, but also those stuck in the thinking of the past generations, go. I leave them to their fate. They are about how NOT to live, and I’m ready to be with better role models, people who know how TO live, and are doing so. Evolution, transformation, growth are challenging, but beautiful.
I want to clarify a thought: in my mind there are (at least) two ideas here about women and sex. One is the idea that women find it interesting to toy with the idea of selling ones “self” — which is an interesting fantasy (or reality) but not the same thing as giving oneself freely in all manner of cool sexual fantasy.
I think that what is missing in many women’s minds is the idea that they can have wild crazy fantasy sex WITHOUT being a prostitute – and that we have been cultured to do exactly what Eric has discussed – receive in return (take me to dinner, I give you sex).
Therefore the return of Woman is not an empowerment to Sell herself, but to live in a world where what she is is not a commodity but something called Love. Totally in sync with our whole environmental issue right now, yes – corporate power etc.
I have floundered in the “dating market” my whole life because I do not know – nor care to know – the rules of this game. Shucks.
Women own a commodity that men do not. That is, their potential to give sex in exchange for something. Men do not have this in that they do not bear any burden from having sex – that is, they cannot become pregnant. For purposes of this example, they cannot be the “recipient”. For a woman, there is a price to self for utilizing said commodity, therefore, it has value.
In a patriarchy, men fear prostitution because it gives women the “upper hand” (by way of freedom to barter freely what they own in themselves – and in theory, what no one can take from them – their sex power (and thusly laws and religion to control)).
Women are “curious” not because it makes them “bad” but because it empowers them; it makes them “free”. The “bad” comes from social programming such as what you have posted here. “Bad” can excite a rebellious spirit, but this is not the fundamental truth of prostitution (which always comes down to paying the rent (or buying the drugs to keep the cycle going when disillusionment sets in) which if one of economic parameters.
As for myself, when I have extreme sexual fantasies, I never find myself involving the exchange of money in the fantasy; no titillation there — only visions of raging wild organic orgasmic and extremely satisfying sex.
All sex is an exchange, money is usually involved, and marriage is the biggest exchange of sex for money going. The occultists know before everyone else — the 8th is the house of “death, dowry and the substance of the bride,” and that don’t mean her rack.
Banning what we think of as prostitution is a projection of shadow. It’s a way of saying, “Look, over there, she’s the bad girl. We’re just regular people, doing our thing. I’m not a whore, you just have to buy me a $100 dinner and then maybe I’ll fuck you.” (Everything, every other permutation of sex other than “let’s do it because we feel like it” is a form of that transaction.)
Banning prostitution is a coverup for the commodification of all of sex. This has nothing to do with human trafficking, which is relatively new (as long as you don’t count the aeons of slavery and slave trade that stalk the human race, of which our modern idea of human trafficking is just an extension).
Looked at psychologically, where sex is concerned there must (typically, unless one is very open minded) be someone more sinful, or weirder, than you. For example, for many married people, those unmarried are the sinners. Look! They have sex without true love (and what about your relationship, Mr. and Mrs.?) Or the ones who ‘cheat’. For many polyamorous people, swingers are the sinful ones. For many gay and lesbians, the bisexual people are the ‘real’ queers; they are normal old fashioned homos. Or, “I fuck a few guys a year, my friend fucks five a month, she’s the real slut.”
There is always someone a little more out there than you, and projecting sexual shadow onto them is a way of trying to get rid of it from yourself. It’s the same basic idea of Jews have horns and black men have big cocks (the alleged horns are a reference to Pan, and the presumed big black cock is envy).
Are you following me? Prostitution is 1. a coverup of how all sex involves an exchange, and often an exchange for money. 2. it’s a judgment against promiscuity, as prostitutes are clearly not monogamous and their existence threatens the illusion of monogamy (and who the heck is fucking all these prostitutes? single guys??) and 3. it’s the projection of sexual shadow, so that all the allegedly good girls can point to the allegedly bad girls and feel better about themselves.
However, this creates tension. Just about all women I know are curious about prostitutes and prostitution. I’ve never had a discussion with a woman about this topic (and I’ve had a few) wherein she didn’t admit to at least considering the potential in herself.
Or, melt away a little of the ego and that raging ‘bad girl’ stuff comes out. Add just a little heat (basically, the melting point of the ego, a little hotter than wax) and many of the most seemingly prim and proper women (and others) I have heard from have the hottest fantasies of fucking whomever — groups, randomly, anonymous, people watching, submissive, subdued, in public, etc., etc., etc.
But where, of course, are they gonna share this? With the men who they fear would reject them at the first inkling of this? With the other women they fear will judge them and put them down for being impure? With mom??? So the only result is a tense, strangling coverup that leads many women to be walking around like they’re packed with explosives, having no clue what to do with all that energy. I am sure we could hear legions from PW readers about the ‘good girl/bad girl’ complex and the whole damned either way phenomenon that comes with this kind of cultural repression.
The only other institution to put out sexual doctrines as strict as the catechism you see above is Second Wave feminism; that is, women’s lib. Read the texts of anti-sex, anti-porn feminists and it sounds just like these horny old priests cataloging sins in their books and websites.
“Finally, why is paying for sex illegal? We pay for all other kinds of professional services. But that’s a whole other topic, I guess.”
though i have to say, mermaid, it’s a topic that has come up on the blog before. by all means, feel free to get into it here!
E2 — brilliant! thank you for the inversion. it’s a perfect illustration and completely practical for conversational use.
🙂
I believe in a masterful creator…
Also the apparent untruths I willingly ingested…
I vomit them back from which they came….
Beyond the bile of judgement…
Peace and love,
Patricia
7 billion and counting…this sexual prudery is killing the planet by turning humans into a cancerous plague relative to the biosphere. The sexual intensity of post menopausal women, the fact that our arms are in most cases perfectly long enough for our hands to reach our genitals, and the existence of the non ejaculatory male orgasm are all proof positive to me that the Catholic Church is full of shit on this issue.
Dear Mermaid. Thank you for The Truth. Your truth is the truth of many. May your healing be sound and sure, as you so much deserve. Love and hugs.
Oh, one more thing. Try having sex with Italian Roman Catholics from the Pluto in Leo, Neptune in Libra generation. These guys (and women, too) are some conflicted folks. They stay married, and won’t rock that boat, shun divorce like the plague, and yet, so many of them are screwing around, sneaking around, multiple affairs. Sex drives they don’t know quite what to do with. Certainly, pre-Vatican II Catholic upbringing didn’t answer their questions about sexuality in a satisfactory way.
At least here, on this site, you-all offer some other ways of thinking and being that at least have a chance of being practical! Now, if only we could get society to reconsider, or even to consider for the first time, the ridiculousness of the status quo.
Finally, why is paying for sex illegal? We pay for all other kinds of professional services. But that’s a whole other topic, I guess.
I can never wrap my head around the idea that celibate men should make up rules about married life and sex. I am quite sure that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus command his disciples to go forth and create a large, rule-laden bureaucracy.
This is really an amazing anthropological document that reads like it’s from the Middle Ages. When institutions fail to adapt, they die, and here’s exhibit number one. But really, is it all that different from the anti-anal sex provisions passed in a few states a couple of decades ago (struck down), or the notorious Texas sex toy laws (also struck down)?
It’s amazing, really, that anyone thinks this is a church’s business. Or the government’s? Why on earth should any adults have to answer to an official body for consensual activities performed in private? Very strange.
The absurdity is truly revealed when you turn it inside out. Would people allow the church to tell them that they have to have sex on certain days, or a certain number of times a month? Should the Catholic church have the power to assign penance if you don’t masturbate three times a week, or you don’t have sex outside of marriage every month? What if pornography was required viewing at church before taking Communion? See how silly this all is?
WOW! This really took me back, this piece–a little trip down memory lane, back to my Roman Catholic roots. My godfather, who went to seminary and planned to go into the priesthood, but didn’t: “Many are called, but few are chosen”–Good ol’ Uncle ***, who apparently was gay, and/or bisexual, having sexual relations with my father (supposedly, Mom caught them in the act). And how about the things my father did with me as a child. And my mother’s perversions, as well. Any wonder I have gender identity issues, feel guilty when experiencing pleasure, feel confused about my own sexuality?
This is probably WAY too much for me to share on this blog, but who the hell else would get the absurdity of the Catholic Church’s stance on sex, and who the hell else would say, ENOUGH, ALREADY.
This article hurts. Or, rather, the painful memories hurt. And yet, I thank you for the Betty Dodson info and the Book of Blue info–They help me tremendously.
Thanks for letting me let this out. I’m healing a little more every day. It does get better.
“gravely disordered.” quelle surprise.
“mutual self-giving.” it’s like legal text… hmmm? could be interpreted in so many ways.
The little number at the front of each item is the Hail Mary value. You divide by five for the Our Father value. That is patriarchy for you. There is a little known prayer called Oh Brother, but it’s not listed.
Holy cow. Imagine the process that arrived at this. First draft, board review, revision, executive approval, proof reading, publication, and they probably did it with a straight face. Then, when they clocked out for they day maybe some of them relaxed by abusing children.
And how many Hail Mary’s will that add up to?
“Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties.”
oh good — we finally have a definition!
***
“Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence.”
hmmm…. in that case, i seem to have a case of chastity incontinence. what a difference removing that little space between the words makes! do they make adult undergarments for chastity incontinence? oh yes…. i think they’re called ‘thongs’. thankfully, i have a good supply of those.
sheesh.
“There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of vampires…”
(oh no… too much twilight…)