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Pop Quiz: UCLA students tell all about Israel
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17 Responses to Pop Quiz: UCLA students tell all about Israel
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“Thank goodness for Democracy Now’s coverage of what is really happening in the Israeli state. Amy Goodman, like many American Jews, is very critical of the countless human rights violations and the brutal occupation there.
I also wasn’t expecting this kind of video on PW, but am grateful for the blunder, Eric. We need to see the bs, too, in small doses (we get more than enough without asking for it) and out it for what it is.”
:::clapping and cheering::: Better said than I could and I agree.
As a secular Jew who supports Palestinian Liberation and knows that the Israeli peace movement has many more supporters than we would ever hear about in the corporate owned media, I found this propaganda disturbing on multiple levels. Yes, Israel is another pseudo-democracy and up until recently I would have said that most Americans are as in the dark about our pseudo-democracy as pro-zionists are about Israel. The only good thing about this video is that it raises many questions for the viewers who have their critical thinking operating alive and well in their hearts and brains.
Why are so many students ignorant about international issues? Perhaps 30 years of dumbing down education, i.e. “every child left behind,” pop culture/texting mania and xenophobia has created this dearth of basic info. Or perhaps the editing, as suggested by another writer, was deliberate to highlight the ignorance and to offer more sympathy to the “victim” state of Israel. That victim idea has to be the first thing to be thrown out – just like the obsession with THE holocaust, rather than an understanding that it is one of many holocausts that continue to be perpetuated. All those who still suffer from Post-Holocaust syndrome need some serious therapy to recognize that their wounds are shared by many other cultures who have experienced brutal genocides.
Who is funding the organization that makes these “STAND WITH US” videos and what does it do to help understanding? In my mind, it just reaffirms stereotypes and does not improve the ability for cross-cultural dialog. Of course, that’s not their goal – it’s mine. So the funders must be folks who like to keep things polarized, perhaps to incite violence and their dreamed-of doomsday?
Thank goodness for Democracy Now’s coverage of what is really happening in the Israeli state. Amy Goodman, like many American Jews, is very critical of the countless human rights violations and the brutal occupation there.
I also wasn’t expecting this kind of video on PW, but am grateful for the blunder, Eric. We need to see the bs, too, in small doses (we get more than enough without asking for it) and out it for what it is.
I was wondering about which side he was on, if any, until he came to the question about what Hamas was, a food, terrorist group, what have you. Not unlike those rabble rousing Founding Fathers and Mothers of our nation, most terrorist groups go mainstream and get legit after a while. Since Hamas was elected to office in Gaza, they qualify as reasonably legit now. I think of them as a somewhat reformed (but occasionally still crazy) loyal opposition to Fatah in the West Bank.
As to the ignorance of the students, well, we get what we pay for, and since education funding is at historically low levels, we’re not getting much.
My high school kids are no better, but actually not that much worse surprisingly. There is precious little time in the typical academic curriculum given over to understanding the world at large, world cultures, heck life beyond the county line. As an avowed world affairs nerd, I try to teach those students of mine to open their eyes and see what’s out there for themselves, and not just what someone else wants them to see. Somebody’s gotta do it!
After the moderation…please post my comment previous . It’s not that inflamatory is it?
All I said was that that guy Shiff looks a bit shiffty to me.
This guy is ill. Would he answer me a few… how many Palestinians the Israeli state killed last year? Or how much blood given freely in Israeli hospitals by black Africans, would the Israeli state use to save the lives of white Israelis? Or how many people does he think he is impressing with his school-yard propaganda?
Eric you said he was a comedian….was is the operative word here.
What a boring man!
Carrie,
I would offer that there are fundamentalists everywhere, not only Jew and Muslim.
(re your statement “Makes me glad I am neither a Jew or a Muslim because both are caught by their beliefs in the religion and their deep loyalties to their people and their causes. Not a comfortable place to be for either group.”)
..and Perhaps they are Comfortable? <– that was humor BTW — with a twist of rye.
But — as for me, I do not separate out Jews or Muslims and be glad for it .
We are One.
Perhaps this is a broader point contained in Mr. Comedian's UCLA video effort.
“it is about a serious lack of knowledge and interest on the part of these students to undertand important world affairs.”
That point was brought home with the one woman he interviewed who said she wanted to go into international affairs after she was unable to answer his questions. That was scary to say the least.
“Feeling this is propaganda? Does that mean that the students who did know the correct answers were edited out and only the ones who didn’t were used for the video to make a point about how much Americans don’t know about the Middle East?”
There’s that but I was speaking of the pro-Israeli propaganda in the questions themselves and how they were worded. These questions were made under the assumption that Israel is a good democracy and the ONLY Jewish country. By what criteria was he going on when he said how many Muslim countries there are? By making his assertions he is negating the huge contributions Jews have made in the US while elevating the Muslim contributions elsewhere. Some Jews have said they believe the US is a “Jewish” country because they are free to practice their beliefs here and they have made significant contributions and some hold government office as well. What is the criteria for naming a country as Jewish or Muslim or Christian for that matter? Many assume America is a “Christian” nation but many more will disagree with that belief.
The bias in his questions was clearly pro-Israel, especially when he made the point that Israel is the ONLY democracy in the Middle East. While Israel may be a democracy in the sense that they have free democratically elected government officials, they do not have a democracy in fact because a certain percentage of their population (Israeli Arabs) are not allowed to vote at all based on their ethnicity alone. They are not the only democracy in the Middle East either. One student did mention that Turkey is a democracy in the Middle east but that was brushed off when Schiff again asked what country is the ONLY democracy in the Middle East (in the next clip) thereby insinuating that Israel is the only one.
That is the bias I was concerned with.
The comedian’s video about a lack of knowledge about the Middle East is especially poignant within the context of it having been filmed at UCLA – a top US university which is is situated in West LA – which is home to a very large Jewish population. Additionally, UCLA is conjunct Beverly Hills which is home to a large Iranian population. I believe part of his comedic point comes from the insider irony of that placement. Additionally, about one-third of the UCLA student population is Asian – he seems to have delibertly chosen a handful of students that actually represented the balance of ethnicity at UCLA. I was not able to quickly find the demographic on foreighn student population there, but it is widely accepted that UCLA’s foreign (not US citizen) population is extremely large.
While Mark’s video may have been filmed as “propoganda” for the state of Israel, listening to it with an open mind and common sense says that it is about a serious lack of knowledge and interest on the part of these students to undertand important world affairs.
Hummas or Hamas. That’s a Sacha Baron Cohen clip BTW.
http://peacenowconversation.org/?p=248
“But I see your point.”
Thank you for that.
“at face value, it’s a strong comment on how little people know about an issue that does make a difference, and you could ask the same kinds of questions about the United States and get the same blank answers.”
I see your point and agree; it does speak to that ignorance.
“I cringe every time I hear the word democracy, no matter who is describing what — especially the United States.”
Me too.
“And when my dad’s wife (who is Israeli) forwards me obvious bullshit, I let them know. Zionism is a heck of a cult; it would be nice if the cult members would admit that, but don’t hold your breath.”
When my Lebanese friend does the same to me, I feel the same way. His Shia’a Islam (as he describes it) feels like a cult to me as well but they also won’t admit it any time soon.
“What is frustrating is that ‘Jewish’ is a religion, an ethnic identity, a national identity, a culture and a political movement. Often these are conflated for the convenience of whoever is trying to make a point, when their expression and goals can be quite different.”
The above is why I often use the terms “Israeli” and Jewish” to differentiate between the religious group (who live in a lot of places) and the secular, government body that makes the laws of the national country Israel. I do this to get listeners (or readers as it were online) to realize that the policies of the Israeli government should not be laid at the feet of every practicing Jew; many, many Jews are against Israeli policies that are demoralizing or apartheid, land grabbing, actions. It is imperative to separate the two even though those policies are at times ordered or carried out by practicing Jews.
It is the same reason linking all Muslims with the word “terrorist” is wrong; terrorists are an extremist group with political aims who happen to profess to follow Islam (profess, but are not really following it as it was set down by their prophet). Non extremist Muslims decry these extremists at times but their own political leanings concerning Israel and other Middle east policies make them silent at other times because though they don’t condone violence, they do want change. It is a very difficult set of issues to sort out because religion has been added to the mix.
Makes me glad I am neither a Jew or a Muslim because both are caught by their beliefs in the religion and their deep loyalties to their people and their causes. Not a comfortable place to be for either group.
Love the discussion. Thanks Eric.
…or even Palestinians! Must use spell check!
Yes it is shocking. But I would caution against making it into yet another ‘look how everyone is against the Jews’ moment. This ignorance of other countries, belief systems, political ideologies is endemic – and probably not just amongst young people – and would probably also apply to the same sort of questions about China or India – or Iceland. What is frustrating is that ‘Jewish’ is a religion, an ethnic identity, a national identity, a culture and a political movement. Often these are conflated for the convenience of whoever is trying to make a point, when their expression and goals can be quite different. I’m not Jewish so admit the subtleties may be lost on me, though I have watched Jewish people I love suffer as a result of these complexities and conflations, which seem to settle in their bones and create such pain.
Agree with Carrie, I’m not sure I’d hold Israel up as a paragon of Democracy. The Israeli Barrier – four times longer than the Berlin Wall, a distance that equates from London to Zurich – seems to me to be a disgraceful example of 21st Century apartheid and land grab. It was declared illegal by the International Court of Justice in 2004 – but still it stands, denying Pelstinians access to around 47% of the West Bank and reducing residential areas to ghettos. In the name of what exactly?
All of us together my eye…
That would be the implication of “bias” the part of the filmmaker. But we don’t know what was cut out. And I don’t think you would get many students who know about this kind of thing. That’s material that would be covered in very specific classes and not so much on iTunes.
Mark Schiff is listed in Wikipedia as a voiceover actor and comedian.
Feeling this is propaganda? Does that mean that the students who did know the correct answers were edited out and only the ones who didn’t were used for the video to make a point about how much Americans don’t know about the Middle East?
I took the interview at face value, rather than as propaganda. It hadn’t occurred to me until now that that’s what it is. But I see your point. That said, at face value, it’s a strong comment on how little people know about an issue that does make a difference, and you could ask the same kinds of questions about the United States and get the same blank answers.
I cringe every time I hear the word democracy, no matter who is describing what — especially the United States.
And when my dad’s wife (who is Israeli) forwards me obvious bullshit, I let them know. Zionism is a heck of a cult; it would be nice if the cult members would admit that, but don’t hold your breath.
I am a bit taken back at the very clear propaganda and bias of this film. I have lived in Israel/Palestine and been the first-hand recipient of Israeli “democracy.” It was humiliating and demoralizing. That’s not to say the Palestinians are all good either. Both sides have so much to answer for.
What I AM fed up with is the Christian-Right-backed pro-Israel policies our country takes despite numerous human rights violations on the part of the Israeli government. We have allowed the Christians to manipulate us into taking sides in a conflict in which we have NO BUSINESS taking sides.
Israel might be a democracy but they torture people, attack innocent people, segregate people based on ancestry, spy on their allies (us) and fire on unarmed international relief workers in international waters. Why on earth do we continue to support them and use the media to portray Muslims and Arabs as terrorists? Both sides need to stop their aggressions and acts of terrorism.
Some people seem to forget that Israelis began using terrorism way back in 1945-46. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing and that the bombers dressed as Arabs ON PURPOSE to discredit them and make it look as though Arabs were the terrorists, not the Israelis. Everyone forgets that racism against Arabs is also antisemitism because Arabs and Israelis are both Semitic people.
Hence, the impression that only Palestinian Arabs (or Muslim Arabs in general) are the terrorists is wrong.
I am a bit unsettled that this biased kind of film is here, on PW. That was a surprise I hadn’t expected at all.