Saturn in Libra, and Mars about to be

Friends, Cousins, Readers:

Have a look at this chart. It’s the conjunction forming that I described in yesterday’s audio. Mars looks like you would expect it to (note that we have added an astrological glyph key to every post, in light blue, right above), and the number 29 next to it, which tells us that it’s in late Virgo; and the planet next do it is Saturn in early Libra. If you’re feeling a sense of edgy tension, that may be it. If you’re feeling a sense of limitation or frustration, now you have a picture of how that looks astrologically.

Eastern segment of chart for Thursday morning at about 8:30, set in NY, showing Virgo rising and the Mars-Saturn conjunction about to happen. Note that Mars is about to change signs and conjoin Saturn. It's also opposing Jupiter and Uranus in Aries (not shown), and it will soon square Pluto in Capricorn (not shown). Note, the pink circle with the slash is Transpluto, a hypothetical; Mercury is in green; Venus is in blue and Vesta is in pink.

There’s a sense of needing to break free, to push (Mars theme) past a limit (Saturn theme) in a relationship (Libra theme) and set your desire free — whatever desire that may be. I just wanted to point out that this conjunction is happening today.

This is one of those astrology setups that says: take it easy. Drive like a Buddhist. Avoid any unnecessary discord, because it could easily escalate, magnify and do damage.

My friend Tracy Delaney in Wales, who you know as an occasional commenter here and as the programmer of Serennu.com, has written an entry about Mars and Saturn in Libra. I love her astrology writing, most of which I get in emails as we unravel new planets and weird charts. Here is what she has to say. –ef

Mars and Saturn in Libra

By Tracy Delaney

Libra is the seventh sign, the point half way through the zodiac cycle, where we have individuated and are now beginning the return journey, the process of re-merging with the whole. Libra is therefore where we begin to deal with “the other,” the “not me,” hence it’s considered the first sign of relationships.

For all its associations with beauty and harmony and being ruled by Venus, Libra is in fact a masculine air sign. The suggestion being that we need to be proactive (masculine/yang) and engage brain (air) when embarking on relationships with others, rather than letting the heart rule the head.

When two people do that their needs may be different, and so on the surface Libra seems to be all about balancing the scales, looking for an equilibrium that works. Which doesn’t sound very romantic. Particularly with Saturn there, the practical realities and hard work that go into real relationships are highlighted; the truth of Libra underneath its pretty dress. Saturn is ultra inflexible, and so things tend to break rather than bend under his influence; this a good time to get out of relationships that are not good for you, where you’re trying to bend yourself into a shape that does not fit.

If you view traditional scales from above, they look exactly as an opposition is drawn in astrology; two opposing circles joined by a straight line. Libra is in a sense the personification of the opposition. Oppositions are considered Saturnian in nature, and Saturn is exalted (shows the best of itself) in Libra; Libra essentially is the art of handling oppositions – hence its inherent tension.

The interesting thing about the scales is the way the two sides are joined at the hip; everything that happens to one side affects the other, like a see-saw. If A throws its weight around, it tosses B up in the air, but B does the same to A on the way back down; instant karma. I.e., things can get quickly out of hand, which is why Libra often develops a tense instinct for “not making waves,” while having an underlying urge to do so. This is after all a cardinal sign. Libra may look indecisive but perhaps is really just aware of its power.

The fulcrum of the scale never moves though, it’s stable like Saturn, i.e., it’s possible to “meet in the middle,” to find the common ground. Perhaps the fulcrum is Saturn in Libra in its highest form. The fulcrum can represent the underlying truth that you don’t have to live on the see-saw at all. All of the air signs emphasise the mind and its duality. The second air sign, Libra, gives the first clue that there’s also something solid “at the centre,” which is not dual, which remains perfectly undisturbed and is universal common ground, the place deep down where we are all the same. Libra symbolises this as perhaps the true key to relating. The balancing and compromising never really satisfy anyone, and may be the consequence of missing the point of Libra, rather than its meaning.

Today, Mars, the other “malefic,” joins Saturn in Libra. This is an interesting, challenging placement for Mars, which is said to be in detriment in Libra. All planets are classed as “in detriment” in the sign opposite the one they rule. Detriment means the planet’s trying to operate in an environment that seems to be the exact opposite of what it needs. We’ve probably all experienced something like that, and so can understand that in Libra, Mars can feel frustrated, thwarted and eventually depressed. Unless he has a good astrologer 🙂

Mars wants to push, to pursue and/or fight for the things he desires. Libra wants to maintain the status quo. So when you ask Mars to behave in a Libra-like fashion he may feel he has to push both ways at the same time to effectively neutralise himself. Because we’re in Libra, this “pushing back” may well be projected onto another person or thing.

So this is a placement where we’re forced to learn advanced Mars handling. This is kind of the final preparation for Mars entering the next sign, Scorpio, where he’s considered to be intelligent, incisive and adept. So what we’re aiming to do here is to hone Mars from the blunter instrument that works in Aries, into the sharp tool he becomes in Scorpio. If you have this natally, your progressed Mars will likely move into Scorpio at some point, so you can follow the timing of the process.

The learning probably starts with the difficulties described above, as Mars quickly learns that in Libra he has met his match, that any self-oriented pushing simply comes straight back at him and gets him nowhere. So he must gradually learn to box clever, to strategise, to understand the other’s needs, to take them into account and perhaps push for some kind of win-win. His motivation is still to get what he wants, but he now understands (Air/Libra) the wider picture, other people, reactance, karma, and how to operate within all of that to get his needs met. As with Saturn, though it’s much harder for Mars to understand, his task is to realise the irrelevance of the tit for tat, to get underneath the fray, and push deep into the still centre around which that all happens. Once he figures out where that sweet spot is, he can penetrate and connect with anyone on a deep level. He is now ready to rule Scorpio.

24 thoughts on “Saturn in Libra, and Mars about to be”

  1. be – gosh, and look at his nodes getting done over, is he on a mission or what. x

    Thank you everyone for all the kind comments and contributions to this discussion, I’ve really enjoyed this whole conversation. Thanks for making me welcome xxx

    amanda – so you’re getting effects from this whole t-square across your horizontal axis, I can see that could be tiring 🙂 I think the main thing is you’re going through your Pluto square. Below is a super-useful extract from Eric’s “Doing Pluto.” xxx

    From here http://www.ericfrancis.com/articles/doingpluto.html

    When Progress Comes Due

    There are two ways to do Pluto: a little at a time, or all at once. As an astrologer, I suggest you opt for the ‘a little at a time’ plan. All at once usually comes after a long, long delay in acknowledging one’s own imperatives. The relationship or job that should have ended 10 years ago doesn’t get past Pluto. The emotional condition we ignore, the state of denial, the simple urge for change, comes due with the arrival of Pluto. We felt it coming, of course, but there were always more important things. So when Pluto shows up, clean your house one closet at a time; make one minor change at a time; take the steps you know you need to take at a slow, steady pace, working toward a larger goal. Pluto merely wants you to make progress and consider its messages, not work miracles (the miracles happen as a result of gradual progress).

    You will act on the energy, or it will act on you; face it, or you will get hit in the face. This may seem harsh, but Pluto does not negotiate, and where Pluto is present, astrologers have their most pressing responsibility to clients.

    If you are feeling unstable, freaked out or extra nuts, Pluto is probably acting on you. If you are also feeling excited, passionate or like change is imminent and that is beautiful, then you are probably acting on it. As Steve Forrest says of Pluto in his excellent work, The Book of Pluto, we can take the high or low roads, and both are usually available. It is possible to seize new energy and new opportunities, or be reduced to bitterness and a sense of failure by refusing to embrace the moment. “The high road is always there, but will we travel it?”

    “How can we live kindly and gracefully while sitting on the hormonal powder keg?” he asks. “It boils down to one fundamental theme: truthfulness beats goodness. Wholeness in oneself is a greater virtue, and a more stable one, than all the conventional expressions of saintliness rolled up into one glorious greeting card.” ++

  2. thanks, tracy — your clear imagery is clear, lovely and incredibly helpful!

    i haven’t quite gotten a full handle on how this transit affects my natal chart in a theoretical way (natal saturn & asc at 01 cancer, mars at 11 cancer, vesta & pluto at 03 & 04 libra).

    but i can say this:

    the last three days have been crazy-busy, alternating between feeling grandly thwarted & frustrated vs having great fun/connection/support/opportunity, all resulting in tremendous exhaustion. yesterday i took a two-hour nap, then a few short hours later slept another 10 hours.

    yikes.

    hoping to slow the pace enough to recharge some this weekend. just realized i haven’t even had a chance to listen to the wednesday audio yet. don’t tell eric! 😉

  3. If after seeing Anthony Weiner’s breathtaking show of anger on the House floor Thursday evening, you might enjoy a couple of observations about his chart. My old friend would say something like “he Mars’d us good!”

    Rep Weiner is a Virgo with his Sun conjunct Pluto. . .and Uranus! . .and Mercury, and they are sextile his Neptune in Scorpio.

    He has Mars conjunct Venus (awwww. .!) which sextile his Jupiter in Taurus. Venus/Mars also trine his Juno (champ of underdogs) and Pallas (warrior lady) in Scorpio.

    Venus/Mars also conjuncts the U.S. Sibly Mercury which is opposite U.S. Pluto, perhaps why we were fortunate to see all that passion from him Thursday.

    His progressed Mercury at 29 Libra trines his progressed Saturn. His NATAL retrograde Saturn is at 0+ Pisces and has progressed to 28+ Aquarius, still retro, and is conjunct the U.S. Moon. (This is a marker of a successful run for Presidency of U.S.) Transiting Neptune and Chiron are located here too, and conjunct both U.S. Moon and Anthony’s prog. Saturn. His prog. Libra Mercury had a field day with the help of this configuration. (Rep. Weiner also has a natal trine between Neptune and Chiron)

    As far as what might have triggered his outburst, he has a progressed Moon in early Aries which would absorb the energy of the presently-transiting cardinal t-square of Aries Jupiter/Uranus, Capricorn Pluto, and Libra Saturn/Mars.

    Also, transiting Mars (0 Libra) is quincunx his natal Saturn (0 Pisces. . where Chiron was from 4/20-7/20), causing enough irritation for even a retro Saturn in sweet Pisces to break a sweat. Of course Mars, having just arrived in Libra, was triggering the above t-square already, so the fates picked Anthony Weiner from New York to make it a breaking news event, in the often-seen-these-days style of Chiron at work.

    Another interesting thing about Rep. Weiner’s chart is the pattern the planets form; called a bucket because all the planets except one are bunched together in one half of the chart. The one outside the “bucket” is called the “handle” and is the escape valve (like a pressure cooker) for the energy in the bucket part. In Anthony’s chart, the handle is his poignant Pisces Saturn; again the reluctant Saturn called to action. It helps that he has a Leo Moon!

    Rep. Anthony Weiner born 9/4/64, New York. (no time-of-day available)
    be

  4. Tracy, Patricial Moonrose – thank you both so much for your lovely comments. Purring away here…

    H x

  5. Zoe, wow, that is beautiful. Exactly – yes! And thank you xxx

    Moonrose – yes – the transits shown are all within 1 degree only. I did that in an attempt to keep it reasonably focused because there are so many objects included, but it would be good to have options so people can list it as they want it – thanks – that’s now on my list – will let you know when it’s up 🙂 x

  6. Lissam- i love your Libra insight.
    oh sigh….no merging for me….perhaps your right.
    But I can promise sporadic periods of authentic and joyful closeness!!!
    Then, a break……:)

  7. Thanks you Tracy, I am unbelievably shy about asking questions on here but your overall vibe is just so receptive and giving, so I really appreciate it!
    Ok, intention ( thank you moonrose)…..choosing where to focus. I like that. I can see that. I love the imagery of seeing the thoughts and hemmings and hawings and all the rest as being the scales…….and its not that they are superfluous or to be ignored…..but that in the middle is the center and its always there holding up the scales. standing straight up.

    I have always focused on the end points of the scales when I think of the Libra scales and this idea that balance and sanity is a very precarious thing! What a relief to have something else to focus on, to gain strength from- the very thing that holds the scales up! I will go to that image, that part of the scale when I need a visual to focus on the “beautiful soul underneath the mind”.

    Thank you so much,
    xoxoxo
    zoe

  8. Tracy,

    I want to add my thanks for “Saturn and Mars in Libra about to be”. I hope to see more of your writing here. This may or may not be the perfect example of Mars conjunct Saturn in Libra (square Pluto and opposed Uranus and Jupiter), but Rep. Anthony Weiner blew my socks off yesterday and I can’t wait to see his chart!
    be

  9. afterthought –

    Tracy, your comment to Zoe makes me think of intention. What is a person’s underlying intention? Something I hear one of my friend’s say often is “well, he means well” and so she is able to overlook some shortcomings that others wouldn’t if the focus was on actions and results only.

    I don’t have these aspects natally but I sure have experienced that back-and-forth that you describe. For me, I try to break it down to “what’s really important here” – to use your example, does it really matter that the toilet seat is up in the grand scheme? One moment I care vigorously; the next moment it matters not at all. It’s a tug of war that I have experienced and when I have the opportunity, I use it to change my conditioning and seemingly senseless concerns when it gets right down to it. That is my strong hope. Sometimes I get there quicker than others, but at least I get there!

    Thanks again!

    xo
    Moonrose

  10. I’d like to echo the other comments that this is such an incredible and well-written piece, Tracy! I also hope to see more of your writing and perspective.

    I also agree with your comment about HazelF! Very apt.

    I love your website and use the “current transits” to my natal chart often. I wonder if there’s a way to reduce the output to just the classical planets plus maybe some other preferred, like Chiron, Vesta, Pallas, etc??

    Also, what is the varying degree (not sure if that’s the right term) between aspects that show up? It seems small, like 1-2 degrees? Meaning an aspect, ie conjunction, must be pretty exact for it to appear, for example. Is that true?

    xo
    Moonrose

  11. Zoe – hi – thank you for your question. Okay, a picture of the common ground might be: You know when you love someone more or less in spite of the things they say and do rather than because of them, or are having a disagreement with someone you love. The things they’re saying and doing, and how you feel about it and your responses, are the scales, going up and down, back and forth. The underlying love, the human connection, the beautiful soul underneath the mind that can’t remember to put the toilet seat down, and the beautiful soul underneath the mind that sees that as a huge problem, are much the same; before the mind and conditioning come in and confuse us and give us things to worry about and make us think we have to do certain things, and in some cases really fuck us up, we are all the same basic innocent being or spirit doing our best, it’s easier to notice in someone you love – this basic common ground of sentient beings at their core is like the fulcrum. So I guess I’m saying we can choose where to focus. I hope that makes some kind of sense 🙂 ~ Love, Tracy xxx

  12. Thank you Tracy and thank you Eric! I loved reading this. I’m a Libra and married to an Aries. For me, I have found that it’s much, much better to let go of my expectations, and just watch instead because compromising has always felt, BLAH. If I don’t like what’s happening, I look within, examine my feelings about it. Of course, if it’s an injustice, well then, I go and fight for what’s right. And whew, the energy these days, thank goodness for all the insight from PW!!

    AMB

  13. fantastic, thanks!

    all this shifting into libra feels so powerful.. mars having to use his brain, while scorpio waits, to use his mind.

    and zoe’s question of how libra merges -or if- seems a foregone conclusion, but i find i love the librans for their inability to do exactly that, wedged there between organized virgo and underworld scorpio.

    what i learned from the acrobats: balance isn’t static

    i can never separate libra from Justice (11)

    what i learned from Pamela Eakins: Justice isn’t just, but exacting… love is the law, love under will, breathing, love is the will, love under law.

  14. I am loving all these lessons. Thank you Tracy for an illuminating lesson on all thing Mars and Libra. I have this placement natally (also conjunct the north node and my midheaven in Libra — I think I really need to meditate on this one for some time) and after reading and re-reading your words here, and studying my chart thanks to Eric’s guidance, I now understand another major dynamic in my makeup.

    I nodded furiously when I read your last paragraph, especially this section:
    “Mars quickly learns that in Libra he has met his match, that any self-oriented pushing simply comes straight back at him and gets him nowhere. So he must gradually learn to box clever, to strategise, to understand the other’s needs, to take them into account and perhaps push for some kind of win-win. ” Oh Yes, I know this one. I have tried forging ahead with Mars gusto, too many times in my life, only to come a cropper! Mars unleashed is definitely detrimental to my health!

    In spring of 2008 I received a humungous life lesson. I started an exercise regime with such know-it-all Mars fervor, only to cause two tears in the meniscus of my right knee — BIG ouch. I ended up receiving poor medical care for a variety of reasons. It took about eight damn months for it to be properly diagnosed and a FULL year for the operation to repair it. The whole experience was hellish to say the least. Now when anybody pisses me off, i simply hex them with a torn knee cartilage and trundle right along! Just kidding, nice Libra snuffs out that hex the second I’ve thought it. 😉

    Yep, I feel I’m all “woked” up and making peace with my Mars in Libra. I get that it’s about the boxing clever and strategizing and now that I pay attention to that, I can’t wait for its passage through Scorpio and what connections come up then.

    Again, many thanks Tracy for your excellent article.

  15. Tracey, thank you for this very beautiful piece of astrological writing. Very soothing and enlightening after having been “blown up” at today by the ex- thankfully he chose to use text message ….

    would love to read more of your work…

  16. zk – thank you very much, and no, I love your question, which I think is extremely juicy – it will do me good to try to express it – just trying to figure out the best way – will be back. Love, Tracy x

  17. Len, I told Eric I was intimidated to put writing on PW because the standard is so high, which is at least partly your fault, so back at you 🙂 Thank you for all your kindness to me, you are one sweet man.

  18. HazelF, thank you so much, I have always noticed what a supportive soul you are around here, and you are much appreciated. I have the exact opposite placement to you – Venus in Aries being squared by Pluto – I guess in some ways an empty room could be the best place to start a fight 🙂 x

    indranibe, “the thing that needs to be balanced most (so that we are in a position to handle external oppositions) is ourselves.” Yes 🙂 Should’ve put that. Presumably your Aries attracts the Libras and the Aquarius enables you to understand them so well. I agree Libra’s a fascinating sign, a paradox before you even put Mars in there. I love the way we go from “cardinal, but don’t move” in Libra, to “fixed, but change everything” in Scorpio. xxx

  19. Tracy,

    Thank you so very much for expressing some rather difficult relational concepts in a concise and precise manner. Your mastery continues to amaze. Your generous sharing is sincerely appreciated.

  20. Thank you Tracy, and Thank you Eric for sharing this with us, it is a pleasure to read.

    With my Sun and Venus in Libra I can appreciate the misunderstood Libra thing, and I often misunderstand myself!

    “The second air sign, Libra, gives the first clue that there’s also something solid “at the centre,” which is not dual, which remains perfectly undisturbed and is universal common ground, the place deep down where we are all the same. Libra symbolises this as perhaps the true key to relating. The balancing and compromising never really satisfy anyone, and may be the consequence of missing the point of Libra, rather than its meaning.”

    -I love this, it really illuminates something that I think is missing from 90% of most astrology musings. I wonder though, how this looks in action….how to we find a common ground without compromise? how do we merge? OR is merging not the point? It sounds so nice, is it possible? I sense that you are not saying we can all want the same things, ya know to eat the same food and want to see the same movie, but unfortunately this is where life plays out a lot….in the daily details of deciding what, where, and how to do something…and how late we will stay up doing it!

    Please forgive the far from illustrious question, I know its pedantic…but I would just love it if someone could paint a picture of this ideal for me. What would it look like, this common ground?

    Thank you!

    Zoe

  21. That’s a great point Tracy, about the fulcrum of the scales never moving – I do agree, Libra is generally misunderstood and so incorrectly dealt with. If we bring in some of the things Len Wallick’s been writing about being conscious of one’s intent, we may then conclude that the lesson of Libra (as being representative of the ‘art of handling oppositions) is that one must be centred in order to achieve true ‘balance’. And as usual, the thing that needs to be balanced most (so that we are in a position to handle external oppositions) is ourselves.

    And what a wonderful observation you make about the perceived ‘inactivity of Libra’ – the people I know with a few personal planets in Libra (and most of the men in my life have a good dose of Libra!) are extremely ‘active’ – below the surface, and I’m constantly surprised by them – the mental activity is so subtle and nuanced that if you blink, you miss it (my hearing and cognitive abilities have improved markedly since I’ve started to pay particular attention to the Libran Way). It’s certainly a fascinating sign.

    My own personal planet makeup is Taurus, Sagittarius, Aries, Aries, Aquarius so Librans really are the ‘other’ for me – and what an incredible learning opportunity they provide – the unfamiliar MO (unfamiliar from my point of view at least) takes a bit of getting used to, but what fascinating creatures our fellow Librans are…Saturn in Libra is sure to be interesting…

  22. E, Tracy – thank you! This is the most enlightening piece of info on this placement I have ever read (Natal Mars in Libra here). Currently got Pluto square natal Mars right now, which is Mars in Libra – cubed. Light blue touch paper and retire…

    I am currently learning how not to start fights in an empty room.

    Loves, H x

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