Here’s the new edition of Planet Waves FM. In this edition, I cover the Sagittarius New Moon chart (which is 3:41 am EST Thursday), as well as continuing the discussion of The End of the World.
If you’re looking for Renee Blue O’Connell, here is her homepage.
Here is your program in the Old Player. Note, you can download a compressed file of the program on the Old Player page, which also includes a full archive of Planet Waves FM going back to 2010. More recent programs are collected in the category listing at the top of the blog frame.
Did you know that Planet Waves offers you astrological readings for every sign in audio format including birthday reports? You’re invited to check out my other products in our audio store. If you’d like experience my weekly and monthly horoscopes, visit this link to access your free trial to our premium twice-weekly astrology service.
typhon – sea – sea as emotions or the unconscious, so shadow material…
And Sam – wasn’t typhon behemoth – would that work as major god (zeus) with major shadow material – either his own or groupwise (typhon) that he gets to grips with – and only he has the depth breadth etc to do so.
And maybe Juno in spite of everything kept him enough on the straight and narrow to help enable that end – this is greenstargazer’s shamanic twist too and also today in Voices by Ursula le Guin I read ‘luck cannot hear’ and ‘oracles are thought applied to mystery’
?!
xxxp
Thank you, to Eric, first and foremost for providing this platform, and to all contributors to this heartfelt, respectful, enriching discussion concerning our “take” on the delineation of jealousy in astrology, related to Juno, and personally in our own lives.
ps altho just rereading be – not only channelling but ‘landing’ connectivity safely. Choreographing.
Sam I don’t want to rip anything except maybe let rip sometimes!
Didn’t Zeus defeat typhon (is that right) then that is useful! No it is just I’m not sure he heard Juno there, and thinking about be’s comment maybe Juno channels (reflects) zeus? Easier all round in that case if he stays himself but sees himself rather than through his effect on her. I take green star gazers, creative approach and Eric’s comment that Juno reacting so rawly is not necessarily virtuoso but there is still that element of trickery and abuse in that story – so I guess you live it (once) and are aware of it and field it otherwise? I liked green stargazer’s response so so much. And be’s!
no no – cherish your Juno – what a woman!
Pam,
I suggest you let him know you’re going to rip him out of your natal chart if he doesn’t shape up. Or how about this — I’ll trade you my Juno for your Jupiter. That might be kind of interesting, eh?
Be, Sam – it is relevant too that Zeus played his part in the situation. Say what you like about how Juno handled her survival and self expression and communication, Zeus too has some self reflection to do!
Bless you Green-Star-gazer, you have put into words my Neptune-like still-unclarified thoughts of the label rage, specifically jealous rage. To me what comes to mind first regarding rage is Pluto and Scorpio, not Juno. At least twice you used the words “energy stream” in reference to Juno’s abilities. Juno is a conduit. She is a channel in which energy flows.
It would be difficult in your chart to separate the many energies between Moon, Neptune, Juno and Pluto along with Chiron and Uranus. High voltage indeed, and that is why Juno is there amongst them, to channel that energy. Before I knew of a Juno symbol I had a few fits of rage myself. Upon checking the ephemeris at those times, transiting Pluto or my natal Pluto, or SOMETHING important going on in Scorpio was always present.
In the Aug/Sept. issue of The Mt. Astrologer, on page 51, column one, Gary Caton says “Juno was, of course, the wife of Jupiter, so she often indicates partners but also the OVERALL PRINCIPLE OF CONNECTIVITY. Ultimately, a new order emerges completely when one follows the connections that Juno represents.” You Green-Star-gazer, have given us the perfect example of this theory, and we all owe you for it.(Gary’s article was titled: Goddess Astrology Re-Visioned: Transfomation via the Sacred Femine.)
I still maintain that Juno is more than just a channel for rage (jealousy or otherwise) that is so unconscious that often it can’t be expressed by the source symbol. These are the things I would love to learn about her and look forward to hearing the positive examples of her strengths. I know she was active during the Arab Spring and also the beginnings of the Occupy movement.
When you say “all of this was perfectly choreographed”, I remembered that next Friday’s Winter Solstice not only has Juno conjunct the Sun, but also Terpsichore, Muse of Dance, and they have been traveling together all year (if not longer). Dancing reqires a good choreographer, right?
be
typo: “conversation of trust” should read “foundation of trust”
Eric and all —
I’m thinking about the relationship between the experience of betrayal and jealousy. It seems like concept “vindicating Juno” would be to say that because she was betrayed, her jealousy is righteous or justified. I’m not certain that anyone in this thread has said this outright, but I believe this is what’s lingering around the edges. It may in fact be the crux of the matter, because I think that betrayal may be the obstacle in the way of processing and letting go of jealousy.
The issue as I see it is that many people have experiences of a sort of primal betrayal or betrayals, which are called up again and again in adult scenarios. It’s not for me to say whether actual betrayal does or does not occur in these adult relationships. I think it’s fair to say that sometimes it really does and that sometimes it’s not that simple (or not that complicated). My sense is that the reason this conversation about jealousy is so difficult to have is that the primal betrayal scenario is there in between, along with all that it engenders — rage, shock, grief, etc. It makes sense that Bkoehler mentions the rage of small children, because that may very likely be the response of a child experiencing or recalling betrayal. If unresolved, it naturally resurfaces in the present and future as a looping gestalt. I think compersion sometimes comes instinctively, but for many others, I am guessing that transcending jealousy arises as a natural effect of opening up to the shadowy feelings surrounding primal betrayal and moving forward. When and if the jealousy conversation stalls, likely the key can be found in a conversation about betrayal. But that’s a conversation that needs to be held upon a conversation of trust.
One more thing: the jealous person may also be an athlete or a brilliant scientist or a goddess — this just goes to show that although the betrayal/jealousy conflict may be enormous enough to topple the very mightiest, it doesn’t have to be.
Hello Eric!
(Willow’s position is that women are entirely unique divining oracles out of reach of mortal men).
What would mortal men be offering? And not just mortal possibly if a Zeus-like contract? Isn’t she firing on all cylinders? Isn’t that something to celebrate as happy and glorious!
(I understand women’s experience. It’s nearly all I understand).
Sez you! Do the long term women in your life say you apply that well because that’s the view that counts? And mother/father stuff. I see loads of that around – will it be a rite of passage for me as a mother too. Lots of green star gazer type of work to be done in every life.
(So far the conversation has not gone in the direction of, “I understand the damage my jealousy and controlling tendencies have caused. I’ve looked at that, and I’ve changed my mind about it”).
Reading green star gazer’s comment I’ve just understood what you are saying Eric. Point taken! And. Chapeau to green star gazer for turning a double negative into a triple positive!
Len doesn’t seem far off the feminine as ‘entirely unique divining oracle’ today?! (Smile d****t – everybody’s fine!)
What a rich and thought provoking discussion has arisen in this thread!
To Eric and with respect: I need to say out loud – regretfully, this place does not always feel like a safe place for me to open up and share, but I do it anyways, like now. If this remark does not fall within the criteria of how we are “supposed” to be conducting ourselves here, well, then…here I am, not conforming…it is Friday morning, after all and we are on the other side of the new moon and this is me speaking from my heart and no, this is not a head trip though anyone is of course free to see it that way if they like. I mean no offense, but we are all just doing our part as best we can…. hopefully.
I don’t think any of us can ever truly understand what it is like to live life as the gender which is opposite our own biological one. This is why we need one another and also why we are confounded by “the Other” almost all of the time. There are just too many subtle and profound ways that each gender is burdened and impacted by the culture in which we swim. The only possible exception might be trans-gendered people but I am not one so I cannot speak to that. What seems true is that all the projecting onto one another that we do here (in the world, I don’t mean the PW community) needs to stop. So does the labeling and the cynicism. It does not serve in moving us in forward.
In my own natal map Juno is very strongly placed: conjunct to the degree with my Moon-Neptune conjunction (which is exact to the arc-minute) in Libra in the 11th, she is also exactly sextile to the same degree with my 9th house Pluto. She along with the Moon-Neptune are the crux point of a T-square to Chiron and Uranus, with Uranus being conjunct Jupiter, again, all within the same 2 degrees (26/27) so it’s all VERY cozy and extremely high voltage.
In my early days long ago, I wrestled with a jealous rage that was as big as the dragon Fafnir. At first it almost killed me by way of my father who was caught in a fit of jealous rage and I could have been the sacrificial lamb, but that was not our destiny this time around. Later on as I started having my own dysfunctional relationships it drove me to almost kill a man once. On another occasion it almost drove me to take a sledgehammer to my lovers beloved car…the only thing that stopped me as I held the sledge in mid-air was realizing that it would not ultimately serve anything to unleash this venom. It nearly destroyed me to experience the depths of this kind of rage and I knew I had only one choice; to indulge the twin acids of jealousy and rage and let them eat me from the inside till there was nothing left or… learn to overcome them. So my work began. It took dozens of relationships, untold numbers of broken promises in partnerships of all kinds – both romantic and in business, broken hearts galore and soul-crushing devastating betrayals re-enacting themselves over and over again to finally burn thru all the rage, jealousy, abandonment, need for validation, and dread projection aspects of my shadowy Juno frequencies. Most people would have taken several lifetimes to live thru what I did in this one lifetime, but I could not get off this hook, not with all those planets so tightly arranged. I know now that all of this was perfectly choreographed to support what I came here to do: to burn it all up…to get clear of it, once and for all.
For me my Juno journey has been one of diving into the flames (albeit unconsciously) and letting them burn me clean…no one else, just me. I had the great, good fortune to have many lovers and business partners willing to play the roles that were needed to get me thru this Karmic torrent; lovers who lied, who abandoned, who were verbally abusive, who cheated, who manipulated, who showed up in a cloud of magic and would then vanish just as quickly. Business partners who would promise me all kinds of things to get the results and products they desired while building up their empires who would then drop me like a stone and move on. I thank and bless each and every one for without these dramas I doubt I would have been able to come to the place of deep peace and dawning unity-consciousness that fills my heart today. But I know in my bones and blood the rage that can consume a person and eat them from the inside out. It has taken a long time to tame that dragon.
For me, the Star map (natal chart and much of what we call “Astrology”) is a living system. It is not merely symbolic, it is not just representative. Yes, it holds those ways of working, but for me it is just as alive as we are here in this manifested world. So that is why I love rich material such as we have here in this conversation…. the deep shared experiences, thoughts and freely offered ideas (and challenges) because they all serve…they serve to expand and broaden our understanding and our appreciation for the ongoing evolutionary process that is also part of Astrology.
I feel it is useful to challenge a thing when it no longer feels right or no longer fits. We are all ready to move into a new reality and in order to do that we have to drop a lot of old baggage and the old stories. I see many people who are having a lot of trouble with this now. People who are in positions of authority are squirming in all kinds of ways. The ordered world is very afraid of disorder and chaos. What I so appreciate about the archetype that I know of as the “Juno” part which is a living force in our collective, is that for all her faults, she is also fearless. And tenacious. As well as practical and determined well beyond what is “logical”. I feel that it is her energy stream that will carry on no matter how bad things get because she is holding a vision of what is ideally possible as pertains to partnerships of all kinds- when all things are balanced and when all who choose to enter into partnerships are equally respected, honoured and are impeccable in all their deeds and actions. She sets the bar incredibly high because she KNOWS what magnificent things we could achieve together as partners in a collective way if we could just stop wasting our lives screwing each other over (and the planet) and focus instead on doing what is needed to get this right. At least that is how I am experiencing the Juno frequency as she is attempting to transform her-story these days. I also feel gratitude for all who have shared in this evolutionary process/conversation as we try to give voice to the many facets of this energy stream we are calling “Juno”, in the here and now as the old world sheds its skin.
For what it’s worth, for anyone looking at a 43 year relationship with envy – it’s been quite a sacrifice for both of us. He has been physically disabled since the early 90s, but there again I figure it is all part of the working through all that was pre-agreed upon before we were born. I have been the main breadwinner for 20 years. My oldest child is the one I placed for adoption. Curiously, her Juno is still in my husband’s 10th house, but he garnered some public admiration when we began disclosing her existence, and never once did he stand in our way. It has been an ass-kicker for me, but we’ve made it across the bridge (I think). I’m afraid to look up my parent’s Juno placements, but maybe it is time.
patty — thank you for your exploration of juno in your family. it’s fascinating and informative. my current partner and i both have juno on an angle, and though i have a simple read on it within each of our charts, i had not considered very fully how our respective junos intersect with each others’ charts, or with those of other family members. (i do not have kids, but i’m keen to take another look at my father’s and mother’s junos.)
you’ve provided a great illustration to learn from.
be —
“It isn’t so much the connections (aspects) Juno makes as it is the level of development of the individual in whose chart the aspect takes place. And it takes place for a reason that will either encourage further development or take advantage of the progress already achieved.”
great idea to ponder. i suppose that is true for most of the planets, yes? but for sure, i find it useful today in considering Juno.
But when we give into rage, our brains stop functioning. I may be enraged deep inside because my husband killed me in a past life, or vice versa. The buck has to stop with us, or else here we go again. Don’t you wonder about the women who kill their kids? I always feel for them, but I wish they’d gotten the help they needed.
Eric has a point. However, like the “angry black man” label, the “angry jealous wife” is a label designed for a suppressed, 2nd class group of human beings. When the label is brought to the forefront it is thought best to stay silent if you are a member of that suppressed group.
I will now apologize for any fits of rage I’ve been driven to brought on by being betrayed, but it’s easy for me; I’m 73 years old and long ago learned it isn’t up to another person to make me feel complete and therefore making me vulnerable to disappointment along with anger. I am still disappointed in others who fail to fulfill any agreed to vow/promise, but it doesn’t devastate or debilitate anymore. Disappointment is enough of a downer, but much easier to get over than a bout of rage. Rage is part of the emotions gamut; at the lower end of the scale. You see it in tots alot.
Feminine rage is best symbolized by the goddess Juno, no question about it, but there is more to the story. Like Mercury represents more than just communication, and Venus represents more than just love, and Saturn represents more than just confinement, this symbol embodies several, if not many, aspects of human nature. It is conversations like this one in places like PlanetWaves that open our collective eyes to the possibilities and range of the reliable cookbook-like descriptives we often defer to in astrology-talk.
It isn’t so much the connections (aspects) Juno makes as it is the level of development of the individual in whose chart the aspect takes place. And it takes place for a reason that will either encourage further development or take advantage of the progress already achieved.
Same for other narrowly interpreted astrological symbols; usually quite new symbols. How long did it take us to get a good grip on Chiron, or even Pluto? Astrologers like Eric introduce us to these new, usually mythologized symbols, with a thorough look at the possible meanings. After years of observation, usually 1 or 2 catch phrases associated with the symbol become popularized and too often the exploration stops. The phrases are usually associated with the lowest, therefore the most common denominator experienced over time. Growth and exploration slow down and the most common denominators are likely set in stone for the general astrological community. After all, there are hundreds of symbols to learn about, connect together and make understandable to thousands, maybe millions of people in order to become useful.
It would appear that we are at a moment when expanded understanding and further exploration are called for. It also opens a pathway to backtrack to where the exploration ceased and offers a second look at a symbol’s rich past with new objectives in mind. Sharing experiences as well as possible theories can only increase our consciousness of the subject(s) which only serves the greater growth of humanity. Call it evolution.
be
From my limited perspective, I can tell what I think Juno represents in my family. My 3 children were born about 4 years apart, and all have Juno in Capricorn, in my 4th house. What is the 4th house, but an apocalypse? My husband is Aries rising, so that puts their Juno in his 10th house. What I’ve noticed over the years is that I have been the one that had to dish out the discipline, which most of the time has seemed quite karmic in nature. For my spouse, the children contributed greatly to his place in the community. They got to do all the fun stuff with him and it has always seemed like they served as a sort of prop, in a fun way. They got to do things that most kids never dream about. One of the things that contributed to my daughter being selected for a position on an expedition to Iceland during college was the fact she had participated in living history treks, where the participants walk into the forest with nothing much more than a blanket, knife and hatchet and a few provisions – no phones, guns, or matches. None of this would have happened if not for their father’s interest in history, and his firm devotion to his children and wanting them to be part of the (his) action.
My Juno is in Sagitarrius, conjunct my spouse’s sun, so naturally I had to be attracted to a free spirited wandering type. It has its ups and downs, but his Juno is in Cancer, loosely conjunct my moon. We don’t like to stay apart for very long. It wasn’t always a charm, but early on the urge to merge was strong with all the right conjunctions where it counts. My guess is that we will probably die within a few months of each other. Maybe that sounds morbid, but it always seemed like I knew him right from the beginning, and he was the reason for being born (or part of it). We’ve been together for 43 years. Sure, there were some jealousy issues and still are, but they seem to have more to do with wanting the respect of the other. It’s like, yes I love you (and he loves me) in spite of the flaws, and I understand you and why you do certain things that drive me nutty, but I won’t leave you so stop worrying, and I won’t stand in your way if you want to go jump off a mountain. My oldest daughter left her Capricorn husband, and I think it was a mistake. She will be addressing the issue again in another life, I’m certain. Most of us need a little excitement here and there, and we need a self-esteem boost that comes with reciprocal flirting. All of us need to be loved unconditionally, and few of us can tolerate being bored. Some people make up for the lack by throwing themselves into their work. But being open and honest is really hard. How many people can say, I’m sorry I am jealous? Not many. In the 4th house, you get wings clipped (my kids). In the 10th, you get to fly. No-one said life is easy, but it’s past time to figure it out.
Willow’s position is that women are entirely unique divining oracles out of reach of mortal men. I understand women’s experience. It’s nearly all I understand.
So far the conversation has not gone in the direction of, “I understand the damage my jealousy and controlling tendencies have caused. I’ve looked at that, and I’ve changed my mind about it.”
Until it does, this is largely a head trip, about “Juno.”
ps – or ‘No’ to the whole story of Juno so well expressed by astrodem – not just theorhetical themes – some women (and others) are actually living them all the time.
And then what. What in each circumstance would make the difference.
Eric, I’m not reading attack or defence here, just a fuller experience (more info) of the note of Juno. Or just a different experience. And fed up with women as ‘bad’ when it is only half the story, or cute or pretty or stepford wives – none of which serve our humanity. I don’t know if you can truly see/feel these things Eric – some men can’t – perhaps it is a woman’s area, I didn’t really walk slap into it myself until saturn in libra this last time and then it is as clear as financial vested interests when you come across it. Oddly ‘snow white and the huntsman’ works (for me at least) in this context.
And as Willow said (heads up to all!) awake to how the status quo (fact) isn’t necessarily as it seems (that is potentially ‘political’ surely and gwind’s call for no masks), and the tension that creates (either way).
Astrology may be an attempt to create a platform for the analysis and understanding of human behavior. It also feels archetypal sometimes. I know that since I have begun to understand Pallas Athene, I rest easier knowing that signature is on my midheaven, and that some of the stuff that shocks me comes with transits to that point.
Astrology is also like a multidimensional compass?
I agree with Dawn about gentleness and kindness and Love, ‘white hot’ women’s energy doesn’t lose any of that – like child labour is extreme (clearly on the line of life and death). As burning river said (ish) women don’t usually do ‘death’ (?but persistence, and life transitions, and more space! so I can breathe (or you can!)).
And green star gazer invited comment.
And in terms of humour – I can only offer ‘beauty’ (that is almost a smile?) instead: 3 wolves crossed the fields in front of our house and went into the woods. A little while after a roe deer took the same path and stopped as tho stung and ran as fast as possible towards us and then into the woods by another track. I guess the wolves had stopped just under cover (hope they are passing through…). And (some weeks ago) we found a hibernating snake and built him a straw bale palace covered with plastic sheeting, with water in case he wakes briefly before spring. I put him on oak leaves that weren’t yet dried in case the straw would be too drying of itself, and another leaf over his eyes in case bits of straw fell into them when the bales on top were put in place. He has a maximum of 5-8 cm space over his head, and every time I see his house (with my fingers now freezing in my gloves) I feel glad. Too ‘cold’ to move but he could see.
But the ongoing question (only mine?) is how do we all communicate effectively and live together immediately in the day to day, (and in wider contexts) with all our differences. How do we keep a sense of perspective in all the tensions, a way through to tomorrow. I know I am not always (even often) clear, just going a step at a time (quite often my heart in my mouth).
Perhaps being comfortable is not the aim?!
Since my name was omitted from the thank you list, I am detecting that this was directed at me.
Venus can represent a man, a female belly dancer or an elephant in a chart, and Mars can represent a gay transvestite, a woman, or a dog. Juno represents husbands as well as wives. In my use of the point — among other things — it CAN represent a relationship principle, as well as attributes of the first spouse, paternal programming for who to marry, the notion of the ‘consort’ and many other factors.
I am not inferring the gender, I am inferring the emotions and tendencies involved. I have noticed that there are many aspects of female conduct that have a better public relations department than those of male conduct, but are no more humane. As a man, I object to all the ills of the planet being attributed to men, and given the kindness of this website to women creatives, women’s issues and women in general, this is not the place to be attacking men. It’s a good place to discuss your hostility to men, however.
If you want to know about Juno or Hera, I suggest you do the research. But just because the some of the myths that depict her depict someone with a problem, regardless of whatever else she had going on, does not make those stories inherently ‘fair’. Greece is well known to be one of the most misogynist cultures in [known] history.
Astrology is an attempt to create a platform for the analysis and understanding of human behavior. I am reading this thread and I don’t hear much discussion about that; I see the attempt to vindicate Juno – to a degree I’ve never seen before in an astrological discussion (and it has not just been here). The discussion of Juno in any form but one’s own natal chart takes us off the topic of our actual feelings.
Thanks astrodem, thanks green star gazer, thanks be.
How many news articles can be attributed to jealous women killing anyone or anything, versus, jealous, envious men who beat and abuse their wives daily and end up killing them? How many? Let’s look at numbers.
Who did Juno kill because she was jealous?
Inferring murderous, jealous rage to Juno needs a lot more “delineating” as far as I am concerned.
I see naked people all the time. What I would like to see is a day without masks. That is my Solstice wish.
Green-Star-gazer,
I agree with you that Juno and other feminine archtypes represented by named astral bodies and hypothetical points are too limiting in their descriptions. I’ve not listened to this or any other audio articles (limited technology and limited time on my part) so hope my response isn’t too off topic, but do feel that we are about to turn the corner on how the feminine symbols are represented in astrology.
As for Juno specifically, I find it very bias to think of her only as a shrew when in any partnerships, professional or marital, if one partner betrays the other partner, he or she will have to deal with the consequences. I’m not defending Juno’s degree of wrath so much as I’m questioning why this is the only attribute used to describe her. I fail to see why Zeus/Jupiter is not also solely known for his betrayals, which by the way were not because of any failing reported on the part of Juno, and that this behavior is almost dismissed as tom foolery, rather than an inability to abide by the rules of the game.
I feel this is true of the Eris symbol too – that so little of her mythology applies to how her symbol is interpreted. Earlier this year in a newsletter Philip Sedgwick remarked that “Many of the proposed doctrines of the conservative . . [party] . . would set humankind back at least 50 years, possibly even centuries. Is this a desperate shoehorn effect to squeeze our consciousness back to within the limits of Pluto’s orb?” He goes on to wonder if they will ever “embrace the Eris-tocracy in which no human is left out, left behind, discarded or kicked when down?” This means that our consciousness should expand just as our understanding of the growth of our solar system has grown; from the boundry planet of Pluto to the expanded boundry limit of Eris, and beyond.
Because the New Moon in Sagittarius tomorrow trines Eris in Aries, and because we are aware of the growing consciousness in mankind, symbolized by the Winter Solstice in nine days, I believe all the deities symbolized in astrology will be re-examined and updated as a result of this new level of awareness. The goal of freedom from duality and a balance of the yin-yang energy so needed for our planet and all its dwellers must be achieved. As you suggest, ” GMO’s and all the other mayham we have wrought upon ourselves and the planet” must cease and be reversed if we are to survive. Surely, looking at the goddesses for a better understanding of their mythological contributions will effect positive results in that goal.
Phil Sedgwick’s remarks can be found in his newslatter dated March 2, 2012, titled “Time For An Explosioin Of Consciousness?”
be
Eric, everything you said about apocalyptic thinking using the Gestalt side of your brain was 100% correct. It’s all consistent with the history and the psychology. Hopefully this extra information I’m providing adds to your thinking.
Apocalyptic thinking also has a long and illustrious association with antisemitism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, fundamentalism, capitalism, and imperialism. Also, if apocalypse is fundamentally a sexual construct, then everything Wilhelm Reich said about suppressed sexuality and mystical longings fully applies. Think of our modern concept of apocalypse as a kind of mega anti-orgasm.
And to respond to Green-Star-gazer, our inherited understanding of the Juno/Hera archetype is thoroughly colored by thousands of years of deeply misogynist propaganda. I may be wrong about this, but as I recall from my studies, the early Christians stole the Juno archetype and turned her into the Whore of Babylon in the Book of Revelations.
Green, I would note the difference between the symbol and the reality – and the relationship between the two. Regardless of what Juno or her predecessor Hera are about, there exists tne phenomenon of jealousy being a kind of universal excuse to feel, do or say anything, from destroy lives, families and relationships, to committing murder.
It is the thing that most people cling to as their Precious, the quality that ‘validates’ all of their resentment and rage, their refusal to grow and their refusal to see their partner, or anyone, as a self-possessed being rather than property, suitable for emotional enslavement. This is so pervasive that it obviously belongs to the psyche or the chart itself and no one planet or point.
It’s reasonable to see how any point associated with relationships, or with possessive relationships, and by possessive I mean emotionally and legally, could become associated with the shadow material we are for the most part leaving to reek and destroy our peace of mind, unquestioned and even defending at the point of a gun. I think that this is what needs to be questioned, rather than what an asteroid means. And, notably, that asteroid manifests differently for everyone, depending largely on the person’s background, their growth level and the aspects that it makes in the chart.
Where there is concentrated power of the kind you describe, the potential for hypocrisy must be admitted and observed vigilantly. And that kind of power is indeed concentrated in marriages and many other situations where one can (presumably legitimately) express a violent reaction for someone else expressing sincere affection. Call it what you will. The discussion is about that shadow material, that rage, control, jealousy, deception, death-obsession and denial of love; it is not about Juno.
Without delineating my own Juno yet, I am using Juno in the context of the 2012 chart as a guide to what seems necessary in order to live whole lives, and live respectfully of one another. Much of that involves how we relate to others, which is a direct extension of how we relate to ourselves. For as long as people think it’s better to cheat than to be polyamorous, we have something to talk about. For as long as our society and many, many people in it condone obligation and guilt as substitutes for devotion and for love, we have something to talk about.
If we address the social justice aspects of Juno, the message still applies. If we address the social conformity aspects of Juno, the message still applies. If we are talking about the military might of Juno, I imagine the message of integrity would apply to how we respond to what is being done in our name, ongoing, as people starve in the streets and, more notably, we enable Congress to debate banning birth control while it funnels trillions into an ongoing holocaust.
Juno in the 2012 chart is square Atlantis on the Aries Point. We know we have a problem, and we know it’s time to open up about it, and I offer a safe space here for that conversation – so that we can move onto solutions.
I would like to invite anyone (and I have included myself in this invitation) who thinks they may have an idea of what Juno represents, to take some time to do their own personal research (as I have begun to do) and re-discover who this Archetype may really be. What you’ll find in most astrology and mythology is a simplified, dumbed-down and de-powered supposed Goddess who is NOTHING like the Being a contemporary Roman would have known and offered up prayers to.
I am so tired of hearing Juno being equated with marriage and jealousy and leaving it at that. Why do we not hear of Juno as the Queen of the community, the Spear-bearer, the guardian of the Vital Force of Life? Why do we not know her now as the Romans did then, as a powerful, autonomous equal and sister to Jupiter, as well as a wife? Because these concepts are too vast and complicated and difficult for a group of political elites who needed half the population to dominate the other half so that they, the hidden puppet masters could keep control over the rabble.
The “modern” Juno that most of us know is nothing like the original Goddess who wielded political and military might and who was the guardian of a woman’s “virtue” not because it was something to be bought or sold or sullied or shamed, but because a woman’s virtue was a representative of the purest vital force of Life, the Divine Gift of Life itself here on the earth and the continuation of all human life held in balance and was under her (Juno’s) care….and she was very serious about protecting the equilibrium of the human community of the greater collective and keeping it in balance with the natural world and the seasonal passages of time.
It is possible that we would not be messing with GMOs and all the other mayhem we have wrought upon ourselves and the planet if the intrinsic power and complexity of this archetype had not been reduced to a jealous shrew, a bitch and a burden, which is how many people think of her now.
Eric, I really like your invocation to first “Marry” oneself. I would add to this the importance of looking beneath the usual and customary layers of what we think an archetype (be it Planetary or otherwise) represents. What we need now at the turning of the age are new stories….deeper, vaster more complex and nuanced stories about what these archetypes are and what they want to be. They too want to evolve and mature and be freed up from the confines of a limited past which is based on lies, just as you spoke of in the beginning of your commentary.
THEY need to evolve right along with the rest of us. And as most of us have experienced, sometimes we have to revisit the past and reclaim what was lost in order to move forward and be freed up. We would do well to start with Juno and give her a richer meaning, one more closely aligned with her original characteristics than what has been fed to us by the misogyny.
If anyone wants to embark on their own self-discovery of what and who Juno might really be, personally and collectively, this is an excellent time to take up that calling with the alignments that are now at hand. As we move towards this power point of transmutation, perhaps we can free up our inner Juno and restore her to a fuller, richer, more powerful and complex representative of the Feminine force within us all.
This is interesting, Dem. In sussing out the ‘meaning’ of apocalyptic thinking, I was using the Gestalt side of my brain. The inclusion of Juno into the picture brings things around.
The ascension is we all wake up that Friday morning liberated from jealousy. And naked.
I took a very interesting course in college about the history of apocalyptic thinking. Everything you said here is very much consistent with the history and the psychology. I thought you should know that the connection between the apocalypse and Juno is this.
The original Greek word for apocalypse meant something along the lines of “unveiling” or “uncovering.” In the original meaning of the word, the thing that was being unveiled was the woman’s genitals on wedding night. Basically, the apocalypse was the moment were the man got to finally see his newly purchased wife naked and fuck her (presumably with or without her consent).
Herein we see themes of marriage, sex, jealously, controlling impulse in relationships, relationships as property, and so forth. All the themes of Juno in astrology are present in the original meaning of the word apocalypse.
This has been a public service announcement.