Dear Friend and Reader:
Good Wednesday morning from New York.
How you feel about the murder/assassination of Osama bin Laden depends on who you think he was. If you believe there is such a thing as the ‘personification of evil’ you might be really happy. If you think he was the ‘mastermind’ of the Sept. 11 attacks (there seems to be a new one of those turning up every few years) then you might feel a sense of closure — especially if you lost a loved one in whatever happened that day.
Yet there exist significant questions about what happened Sept. 11, and in our gloating about the assassination of bin Laden, I suggest we remember those, and keep them in mind — particularly anyone celebrating the death of someone they did not know personally, and know very little about historically.
Here is the the podcast, in the old player. The old player includes a full archive of my podcasts, by the way. That’s where we keep them.
In today’s edition, I mention an article called Were it So, from 2002. Here is that article. And here is bin Laden’s wanted poster from the FBI’s website. Please note — he is not wanted for the Sept. 11 attacks. Read it (it’s short) and you’ll notice it’s missing. There was not enough evidence of his involvement to mention that.
jere-I’m really really really really really really really really with you, bro.
“So the fact that these Gen X adults may have told their kids that OBL was the most evil man in the world would not have worked, did it not fit with a pre-existing (and/or well conditioned) agenda on the part of the next generation…”
I don’t understand this. Millenials need (really need) to believe that America can not only do something right for a change but actually fight evil. OBL has been personified as pure evil. Of course it “would have worked” and that Millenials would cheer the championing of good v. evil. As for the “pre-exisiting agenda on the part of the next generation”, it was called “24”. You should have watched at least one episode and then seen the reaction of their audience to see “scary” in action.
burning river —
you’re not alone. i’d never heard of alex jones, but ran across this just now while doing research for tomorrow’s issue:
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/rise_of_the_deathers_catalogin.html
“Bin Laden Was Dead Already
“First in on this tack was radio loudmouth Alex Jones, who has been contending for years that Laden’s body has been “on ice,” frozen like Walt Disney. He has posted numerous videos as evidence, including one recorded by murdered Pakistani leader Benazir Bhutto. Also in this mode is the striking contribution found on the reliably bonkers Rense.com, which features a fab faux grindhouse movie poster of a decomposed bin Laden visage along with a picture of Obama with a downtrending ratings chart. The copy reads: “When ‘yes I can’ stopped working…they dug him up and killed him again! Osama Zombie 6.”
Amanda, I’d have to refer to whom I would consider my spiritual authority, Gandhi. I don’t attempt to emulate him, but to embrace a similiar ethical standard. He’s a stronger soul than I. Fact is, he got his ass kicked quite a bit. He witnessed his friends and family get their asses kicked as well as killed. And still he refused to fight violence with violence. In my heart of hearts I feel shamed that I’m not that strong, because I feel that that is the ‘correct’ path. But in my head, I’m not prepared for that pathway, yet.
..still internally crosswired,
Jere
Astrodem, in the 1960s, the Greatest Generation adults who had won WWII told their kids they were supposed to fight and die in Vietnam. Some did, and more broke away and refused. Those Greatest Generation parents did not say, “Be a hippie! Drop acid! Smoke pot and fuck! Stop the war!”
So the fact that these Gen X adults may have told their kids that OBL was the most evil man in the world would not have worked, did it not fit with a pre-existing (and/or well conditioned) agenda on the part of the next generation — the people we saw dancing in the streets Sunday night — few to none of whom had ever been to an antiwar protest in their lives (where would they do that? There really aren’t any); perhaps some of them had read about Vietnam in Social Studies. Your theory only describes the effect, but does not explain the cause.
I guess you have to figure out if you value being a pacifist over being For Peace.
isn’t stopping violence a ‘peaceful’ act?
personally I don’t equate pacifist = peace
it’s not that clean of a relationship.
remember, there is the Art of Peace.
and that calls for being a warrior.
strength of heart, Love, and courage are more about peace to me than passivity or apathy
ya know?
all violence isn’t ‘bad’. not that simple. when you are defending yourself or loved ones that is one story. and when we get into the realm of ‘punishing’ there is a line that is crossed into another story.
and torture? can’t think of a single good thing about that. deliberate harm for your own sick purposes? let me know if anyone comes up with any positive spin on torture. ugh.
definitely not a ‘blanket statement’ topic .
I know what I am supposed to believe
I know what I do believe
and it leaves me lonely and
it leaves me sad
I remember a self who knew
all the stories
of a new country
and no more
That self is long gone now
I know what I’m supposed to think
I know what I do think
and I am afraid and
I don’t know how to live with it
I’ve talked with some
and it does help
but there is one
I can’t talk with
about it
My son
in the army
I’m afraid
and so sad
that this comes between us
Even though I’ve never said a word
about what I believe and think
It’s between us
the proverbial elephant
I will display my ignorance and common-ness: Who is Alex Jones?
astrodem,
interesting – and not surprising. thanks for the update and advice….
As someone who was present in the streets at the White House in Sunday night and as someone who has studied generations in American history, I have a few things to say about your remarks.
First of all, almost all of the people cheering in the streets were college educated Millennials. America got its first fleeting glimpse of the dark side of the Millennial generation, and I don’t think the country really understands what they were seeing. What most people don’t understand — and still won’t understand for many years — is that the Millennial generation, though wildly progressive in most other respects, has an almost unimaginable capacity for collective violence. As a generation, they have it in them — as a collective — to obliterate entire continents if they so desire and then throw a huge national party to celebrate what they did. What we saw Sunday night was just a tiny glimmer of this potential.
In 2001, the Baby Boomer adults told their Millennial progeny that Osama Bin Laden was the personification of evil and responsible for the attacks on 9/11/01 — and whether that was right or wrong, whether it was for good or for ill, the Millennials agreed and internalized those beliefs. When the government announced that Bin Laden had been killed, the Millennials who could do so poured into the streets to celebrate. These young revelers were violently happy. There’s no better way to describe it. In some ways, the mood evoked the celebrations on V-J day in 1945. I even heard a few people refer to the moment as V-AQ (Al Qaeda) Day or V-A (Afghanistan) Day. It may surprise you to learn this, but many of the Millennial revelers I talked to were anti-war liberals who hoped that Bin Laden’s death would give Obama sufficient pretext to begin rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan. There were a few random conservatives, aspiring imperial neo-cons, and tea partiers in the crowd — but they were clearly the exception. This was a pro-Obama, educated, authentically progressive, but violently happy bunch of mostly twenty-somethings.
No doubt many people were repulsed or disgusted by the celebrations in the streets. Personally, I found them a bit macabre — but I understand why they happened. I also understand that they authentically illustrate the values, character, and potential of the Millennial generation. So here’s some friendly advice for both Americans and for America’s enemies: don’t get on the Millennial generation’s bad side.
hey jere —
thank you for bringing up your evolution/shift vis a vis being a pacifist, that is, whether you would allow a loved one to be tortured or try to stop it.
it’s a fascinating question to ponder, and illuminating. the question that comes up for me, simply rhetorically and with no judgment toward you intended at all is, “at what point is allowing harm to be done the equivalent of ‘doing’ harm?”
if choosing not to act is still a choice, and perhaps therefore a form of action, then….?
just musing here…
Love the podcast, in so many ways…
and the re-bringing up of some of the bullshit issues re: 911 and esp. the Pentagon building deal. actually, I remember reading that when you wrote about it ‘back in the day’ and it imprinted then-actually I’ve talked to a lot of people about that, and got them questioning.. I mean, even if you don’t want to get into all the nitty gritty, like some people enjoy, like myself, it takes about two seconds to look at those pictures (you don’t even have to read, people, just look!) and Know something is up (almost said ‘fishy’ but that word is now in the sacred animal dictionary.)
just think, when a plane blows up fr. 30,000 ft. or crashes, as, unfortunately, they do, if you ever look at the photos, there are PLENTY of identifiable plane parts scattered here and there. that’s one of the things that make them so eerie. that a large portion of the rig is burned and smoking, but there are a couple seats from row 2 , formerly a window and an aisle, just sitting there perfectly, awaiting for beverage service en route to some magical, unknown destination. strange.
and what about the damn black box? it has a job!!!! where is it? and what did it say? WTF?
moving along, this IS a dense topic, Jere. lots to discuss, yes?
in regard to the topic of “how are we able to believe, or why DO we believe all the lies we are fed, I’m going to twist that a bit and state that I DON’T think people really do believe them, it is a false appearance of believing.
where I am going w/this is that is fr. my own experience of watching people react when I bring topics up (like the Pentagon ‘crash’, feedlot conditions, big box stores vs. the little guy, organic vs. non..etc.) at BBQ’s or family reunions, what their body language says.
and what I see is people automatically rolling their eyes into the back of their head, sighing deeply, and practically collapsing due to OVERWHELMENT. (it is a word, ask Abraham).
and I think this overwhelment is part of this Shock Doctrine. in that, make everything chaotic, fr. environmental disaster to wars to Sarah Palin for prez. then people will just feel they need to unplug -they can’t stop it, it’s too big, it’ blah blah.
(I’m not saying they are not justified in feeling like that, but somehow they need to start associating that feeling with something else) I’m going to listen to Naomi again, in a bit, more on that there…
it would be helpful maybe if people do feel overwhelmed to just start maybe at a baby step, rather than try to solve world problems. meaning, if you are not at the stage yet of being able to transcend the hysteria and drama and remain a little objective, just take a baby step.
for example, just check in with yourself, it doesn’t take long, and ask yourself, how does this feel? does it feel right (for lack of a better word)? yes/no. breathe.
looking at the photos of the Pentagon, and some common sense, does the story that a bigass plane crashed there (and you’ve seen lots of plane crashes, you love the carnage & drama) look right to you??
yes/no? breathe.
just notice. baby step. don’t have to get all into a detailed analysis, or begin worrying about your world view, or do anything. just notice.
interesting.
OK- topic of children- Children are little saints of wisdom. For me, they are an untapped potential for some really great ideas. ever talked to a little kid lately? most of them are v. v. willing to share with you their thoughts- if you are a kid person. even the ones that play video games- if you engage with them and talk to them like people (they are) rather than talking down to them or over them, you can get some great exchange. they are one of my go-to peeps. so to speak. particularly a lot of the babies that have been born in recent times really have some awesome comprehension and special messages (not that all kids aren’t special).
in closing, for now, this is getting way too long, I truly believe, and am not overwhelmed by the possibilities of working with others, compromise, seeing others points of view. these things cannot be underestimated. it is simply unimaginative to say they don’t have real merit.
Remember that TED talk/lecture that was on here not too long ago about seeing things fr. another POV??? sorry, can’t remember his name, he was a sociologist I think…awesome.
what would that guy say about the Osama incident, I would love to hear how he would present it. because I am sick of just seeing things from my little cultural ethnic national POV.
glad to be writing in the light of day!! I’m thanking the Taurus new moon as well as some other aspects going on that are inspiring me to prioritize, rethink, and redesign my life as I carve out a niche for the new… (vs. continually trying to ‘do everything, keep everything’) which is not sustainable. all part of the building foundations program.
thanks for the space to share! hopefully coherent- know the feeling Jer!! we ARE space aliens!!
peace. Truly.
Rob44, would you elaborate? As I’m unfamiliar with either of those folks thought-trains, except what I’ve caught of Jaun Cole on P.W..
Forgive me if I’m incorrect in thinking it a pointed statement, but I would debate my statements knowing full well that I absorb as much information as I can from as many sources as possible. When I place a statement or theory, it is from external, digested material that has been synthesized through a proprietary internal metabolic process. In other words, I call it as I see it.
Seriously man, if that was for me, give me some substantial critique, not cryptic inuendos. I’m open. (If not, yeah I feel my back a bit up against the wall on this one. I don’t think my views on reality are very popular..)
But, even if it’s not smokin’ in my direction, I wouldn’t mind hearing what you have to say regarding the contrast of those two characters.
Sincerely,
Jere
Okay, as for the ethics topic.
In all our (and I’ll speak as an American citizen here, as opposed to having to identify “the U.S.” in every sentence.. not a form of nationalistic self-centeredness) ‘patriotic’ bluster, placing military troops on a pedestal, thinking of ‘them’ as Flash Gordon (the saviour of our universe), we’ve neglected to really turn our eyes to the ‘work’ they do. Murder. Yeah, I know, in the dream we share it’s “serve and protect” (like the cop cars in my home town used to have on their doors.. not anymore..). It’s difficult for any rational, empathetic human being to look up to a killer, but a saviour, that’s different. It just so happens that humans are engrained with an inquisitive nature, which leads them to the disillusionment of war in general, because quite honestly, it involves murder (and I think the under-pinning desires of humanity are based on inter-beingness and love).
This is where I think the ethical dilemma comes in: we’ve been told to sanctify the troops themselves, while at the same time told to admonish their actions (killing, torture, general destruction). So how do we rectify this? Well, if you’re one of the cats ‘stewarding’ this planet, you might think of a different approach to playing war-games. This is where remote automation, and precision striking comes in handy. If you’re not one of those cats, you might consider becoming aware of what exactly these “white knights” do. And then, be honest. With yourself, with your friends, with your children. Is it ever ‘right’ to kill, in defence? Gandhi and Jesus would say no.. but ‘there’s’ a freakin’ standards bar! Jump that one.
I’ve been a strict pacifist most of my life, there was a long period in my life where I believe I would have watched a loved one be tortured, and not acted aggressively to end it. Those times have changed in me. I would take on the karma of violence in order to pull a friend out of severe harm. I’m sickened by my own capabilities if confronted with such a situation, but I’ve decided that, for now, in my life, if I personally witness an atrocity, I will fight, tooth and nail ’til death. I’m honest about that. It just so happens there is less than a handful of scenarios that would place me in that position, and those are egregious acts of desecration (and I have to be stopping it, not pre-emptively, and not after the fact revenge garbage).
As far as ‘true’ rectification of the ethical reality.. Honesty. (Shit! Who woulda thunk it?) Share with children, everything you know. Bring them up to speed as soon as possible, to allow them the platform to evolve. Let them understand that ‘ethics’ is still a topic of debate, and that no individual or group holds the moral authority. We’re all here to discover for ourselves, and the best way to forge ahead in that is through awareness.
I think I tangented more on that one vs. defining what was in my head.. I’ll have to bake more..
Jere
Amanda, yes, maybe you are right. Thanks.
In the stone age, man would kill the prey and divide it with his fellows and they would have all eaten together, feasting.
Now, we share the prey exposing it globally on the internet.
paola — that is *really* interesting that the papers would show one mangled corpse, but not “the one.”
as if the carnage is any less offensive? maybe they’re still going with the “if we show bin Laden, he becomes a martyr to rally around” excuse, and think showing another corpse “proves” that things happened as they’re reporting? i guess all it takes is a suggestion of “proof” for some….
Let’s keep our frequency high, or simply let’s keep our frequency. Stay centred as much as possible, and close our doors to these low, low suggestions. One moment they come from one side, the moment after they come from another side. Huh? Or just laugh at it all.
Hey Eric, another thing is happening in the last few hours, at least here in Italy: first, this morning, BIG titles of newspapers saying that the pictures of the corpse of Bin Laden are “too scary” to be shown, but “we’ll decide if showing them or not”.
(‘Oh well, so Bin Laden is able to frighten us also after being dead!! Quite interesting’).
Then “Obama decided that the pictures of Bin Laden corpse will not be shown, because too harsh”.
(‘Ok, good, we’ll be saved from this disgusting thing’).
Then, now, a giant picture on the two main Italian newspapers online, of ANOTHER corpse: shit, it’s disgusting!!! Why should people see that?!? “It’s the cprpse of another victim of the raid”.
Bleah!
Why, why must they transform a supposed – and for some people really- relieving thing in its opposite, a new carnival of the horror?
Respectful suggestion to the general audience: read more Juan Cole, and less Alex Jones.
Briefly, as for the psychological conundrum..
The patriotic in-your-face war machine is getting tiresome to an economically challenged proletariat. The American citizens want to be supported within a basic ‘standard of living’ capacity through their Govt., yet the national psyche still screams out for an ‘exacting punishment’ mentality (a bit on the paradox side, but..). This is where the strategists come in. The psychologists, generals, secretaries, heads of state, multi-national corporate ceo’s, all the folk who’ve staked their lives on ‘stewarding’ this reality. (It would really be a cool thing if these cats were altruistic, but…). Without the support of the people who prop them up, they may have to kick it in the unemployment line, so as opposed to being out of a job, they have to find “new” ways stealing from the public. This is why the “Wars” aren’t ending, they’re only transforming. Bin Laden’s usefulness is up, he was great when everyone was pumped up about kickin’ some ass, but everyone’s a bit tired of the collateral damage now. This is a new (not exactly, but..) strategy to win the hearts and minds of the masses, in order to further an ‘acceptance’ of murder as an institution: what the military has become (which brings me to that ethics topic, but I’ll step into that in a bit. I lack endurance with a keyboard these days).
Man, this topic is broad and rich! The crazy machinations of our species.. Clever bunch, if not a little out of key.
Jere
I’ve got a theory in attempt to grasp the (behind the scenes) scenario. I’m going to have to stretch a bit, but with nothing I feel is too over-the-top in rationality. Roll with me for a few, here goes..
Pakistan, there seems to be a new ‘front’ emerging toward that country. It’s not exactly “new”, seeing as how drones have been flying operations wihin that territory for as long as drones have been operational, and I’d bet special forces conduct missions within the borders on a continual basis. Now with Bin Laden dead, the U.S. finally has an opening for ‘military draw down’ in Afghanistan: this is what the U.S. citizens overwhelmingly want, and the Govt. understands support from the people is crucial to any militaristic endeavor (Robert “Strange” Mcnamara spoke of this regarding the Viet Nam war, damned hippy peace freaks! Ruining our bonfire of houses, women, children, and villiages.). The draw down of troops can now begin, not to reign in spending as is being said: that spending will be shifted to other programs such as hi-tech remote methods of conducting war. The draw down will appease a good portion of the U.S. citizenry, and allow the Govt. some breathing room to re-organize their effort to fuck shit up. This is where the whole Panetta, Patraeus shift fills in a little better. Petraeus, the ‘boots on the ground’ military guy is taking over the covert ‘behind the scenes’ department. This gives me a picture that says the face of war is going to be a little less ‘in your face’. Panetta, the covert ‘sneaky’ guy now has the helm of national defence, which to me says “intelligence logistics shoring up borders”. Now back to Pakistan, a country that truly does have weapons of mass destruction. If the U.S. citizens can be convinced that Pakistan is harboring ‘terrorists’ and a threat to their security, they’ll be a little more lenient when news of special forces raids and drone attacks leak out. Unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, the U.S. can’t go barging in through the front door of Pakistan: they have the capacity to throw nukes around (and that really doesn’t bode well for India). This is why the U.S. will continue to have a military presence in Afghanistan indefinitely. It’s not to make life better for the Afghan people, it’s so they have a base of operations to screw with Pakistan. (Honestly, if the Govt’s. main focus was enriching the quality of living, would the U.S. economy be as fucked as it is?)
Alright, I’m gonna stop for now, but probably pick back up on this later when my thoughts are more cohesive.
I do have a theory on the ‘ethics’ topic too, but that as well will have to wait until my brain resolidifies. Weaving the words in a cogent manner takes me a bit of time.
..Careful with that axe Eugene..
Great podcast Eric. As always, appreciative of your continued participation in this here reality.
‘Til later,
Jere
There’s that mystical longing again…the small snippets of videos I’ve seen of the celebrations seemed to me like everyone has been so wigged out for so long those of us who don’t know the joys of whole body power went for a celebration of assassination like a starving crow would go for a dead squirrel.
Thank you, Eric, for putting the truth out there for those who have eyes to see, for those who have ears to hear and for those who are ready and willing to step out of the collective consciousness of fear. The time is at hand for the truth to be revealed and I have always felt the agenda of all governments around the globe to be one of manipulation and control ~ such a game we are all playing! They can listen in on my conversations and read my email all they want to but I will not succumb to their control and manipulation.
I have always felt that bin Laden was also a player and I believe is alive and well somewhere, laughing with all the others as they continue to play their game. What a wonderful way for our president to now have his ratings go up by the supposed killing of the evil force purported to be behind 911 ~ its all such a joke!
I refuse to watch the news about this and I refuse to focus on “those in control”… even the nuclear disasters that continue to occur; all of this is created to keep people in fear to be manipulated.
Yes, sometimes I get angry about what goes on but I then have to get connected again because that is also a response that can be manipulated. I will continue to stay connected to Source/Creator/God/Consciousness in every moment with the intention that others can feel this truth, will resonate and be ready to also connect and engage. My eyes are open, my ears are listening, my heart is open and giving and my antennae is tuned into the frequency of love. I do not harbor ill will towards those who perpetuate the game because it really is just a game and we get to choose whether we want to play or create another game, one that supports life.
Blessings to all.
Eric, thanks for brilliant analysis and continuing to get the word out.
Personally: taught my sons and my daughter: self defense and protection of personal boundaries a necessity; aggression forbidden.
Very well said, Eris 67, very well said. Glad you get it. May your tribe continue and increase.
Good morning!!
Great audio this morning that put the wheels in motion so to speak, I am writing to you from ignorant america northeast region. I pondered the thought of why is it that we as a people are so able to believe all the bullshit and lies we are fed, and I came up with a theory…..not a new theory, but a theory none the less. We want to believe that the people running our country are working in our best interest. We believe it, because we are programmed through our media outlets TO believe it. I think that most people in my cirlce catch their news either in the Dunkin Donut line, or on the radio..{its free}, or the local channel if your rich enough to afford cable. So when do we question what we are being fed? When we happen to come across people like you, Eric….or others that stand up for what they believe in. Who is accountable? Well, I feel that whatever our gifts are, where ever the Great Spirit has placed you in life, you go with it in fever pitch. If during that course you realize that you are infact deceiving the masses, that what do you do? Do you carry on deceiving or change your pitch…shit, change your pitch after spending so many years thinking that what you are pitching is truth has actually been deception?? Why yes, I do declare, that the only way to redemption is to stand up to the plate and take accountability for your actions. Thats not easy for alot of people that make their money or fame doing just that now is it. But to me, the only way to fulfill the law of love, would be just that. It starts with you and me…..
Peace and Love,
Patricia