{"id":42985,"date":"2011-08-13T15:00:39","date_gmt":"2011-08-13T19:00:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/?p=42985"},"modified":"2011-08-10T16:15:45","modified_gmt":"2011-08-10T20:15:45","slug":"what-makes-men-start-fires","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/polyamory\/what-makes-men-start-fires\/","title":{"rendered":"What Makes Men Start Fires?"},"content":{"rendered":"

By Maria Padhila<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

I tend to like men. Surprise! And at the risk of sign-ism and\/or sounding like Cosmopolitan magazine, I tend to really like Capricorns. The Eeyore gloom, the way this mordant, louche sophistication combines with a stuffy, traditional integrity — that\u2019s a shallow way to put it, but there you go. The shallow Gemini I am enjoys their contradictions. Plus, there\u2019s the Capricorn quality my daughter, Tobi, has been able to get across even since infancy: a wickedly dry sense of humor. (If you don\u2019t think infants have senses of humor — and very individual ones, too, some playful, some silly, some sweet and some snarky — you need to spend more time with infants.)<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Poly Paradise at Burning Man. Photo by Eric.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

So the combination of man and Capricorn is part of what kept me reading Poly Guy\u2019s blog<\/a> — and made me think he\u2019d be a good person to interview about some men-and-poly questions I\u2019d been having. I\u2019d ask one of my guys, but I don\u2019t want to put them under the interrogation light just yet. Isaac, my legal husband, has actually said he\u2019d write a guest blog sometime, but he wants to wait until I have things better established. <\/p>\n

I had been wondering about the whole Sex At Dawn<\/em> line of argument that monogamy is unnatural and not something the human animal will ever be comfortable with. If I accept that argument, I\u2019m thinking I must also accept other ‘natural’ tendencies as well. And is ‘natural’ unreservedly something to aspire to, in any case? I don\u2019t think monogamy is natural — at least not for me — but condoms aren\u2019t natural, either; and both monogamy and condoms have enriched and improved many peoples\u2019 lives and happiness for many, many years.<\/p>\n

But I can\u2019t really deny that as little as I like making generalizations based on gender (or even on planetary positions, the above notwithstanding), there are some aspects I see men working with, challenged by, or unconsciously acting out, types of behavior that are typically identified as ‘naturally male’. How much might behaviors such as competitiveness and territoriality make it more or less difficult for men to have polyamorous relationships? <\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

There is also the general opinion out there that poly is one big party for men, and one big PIA for women — which I know is wrong. So here is — like they say in the ladies\u2019 magazines — one man\u2019s opinion.<\/p>\n

Poly Guy started out our email interview by telling me one of his sweeties had come by but told him she realized he needed to do some writing, so she split for the night. How can you not love a partner who encourages you to write? Sometimes I don\u2019t think I\u2019d mind if one of mine locked me in a room and wouldn\u2019t let me out until I finished something, like used to happen to Colette, as well as to Keith Richards and Mick Jagger.<\/p>\n

Anyway. Poly Guy background: He has been poly all his life, he says, telling a story about when he was 15 and asked six girls out for a date. For the same date and time and place. It actually worked. He still dates one of them \u201cinfrequently.\u201d Over the years, he tried to conform to traditional relationship models, but gave up about 10 years ago.<\/p>\n

As a woman who’s been accused of being selfish and greedy in wanting more than one relationship, I wonder if you’ve ever had this one lobbed at you — and do you think it has had anything to do with your being male?<\/em> <\/strong><\/p>\n

“Oh yes, I have known women to accuse me of trying to build a harem or just put notches on my bedpost. My response generally is that they should get to know me before stereotyping or making unfair judgments. I think it does have something to do with my being male, as it is a generally accepted principle that men are dogs and just want to sleep with every woman they can find. <\/p>\n

\u201cBut more often than not, if I can get the person to have an adult conversation and withhold judgment for a moment, I find that the real issue is social training. People are raised with monogamy as the default. To counter that psychological norm is breaking some of the basic building blocks of their belief system, which can result in some ugly responses from people. Often they will calm down a bit when I tell them that although I\u2019m polyamorous, I\u2019m not a purist about it. I truly believe poly doesn\u2019t work for some people, just as monogamy doesn\u2019t work for me. My opinion is that people should build relationship models that satisfy their needs, whatever those needs might be. To heck with social convention and expectations.”<\/p>\n

Is there a ‘natural’ sense of territoriality on the part of men that might make it harder for them to accept their female partners having other partners? Is this something ‘extra’ men have to process to be polyamorous?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThis is close to asking \u201cWhat is the meaning of the universe?\u201d I don\u2019t know if it is a ‘natural’ issue within the male mentality that makes it hard for them to accept their female partner having other partners or if, again, it is a result of social training. <\/p>\n

\u201cLooking at the issue as jealousy, I think men (and probably women too) feel that if their partner is with someone else there is the potential for a loss of the relationship because the other partner may be ‘better’ in some ways. My experience with that type of jealousy has been that once people realize their partner isn\u2019t going to leave them, that polyamory is the concept of multiple, usually simultaneous, relationships, not serial monogamy in disguise, this type of jealousy will dissipate. …”<\/p>\n

How about competitiveness — do you think it’s harder in general for men to transform or overcome being preoccupied with who is better, etc.?<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

\u201cI think this is tied to social training for men. Males are conditioned from birth to be competitive, that strength and control is admired in a man. Even women, not all of course, have perpetuated that belief by their simple attraction to strong men and men who take control. If the pretty girls are attracted to the boys with muscles, or who can throw a football the furthest, men are going to try and grow their muscles and compete with other men to see who can throw that ball farthest in hopes of ‘winning’ the pretty girl.<\/p>\n

\u201cWith an actively functional polyamorous relationship that male conditioning will be tested. With a single female and two alpha males there will probably be some struggles, bruised egos and the like. The men may very well compete; sexually, intellectually, or even emotionally.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe most successful poly relationships I\u2019ve seen with a single-female, multiple-male configuration involve a single alpha male, no strong alpha male, or bisexual males. Quite often the males don\u2019t have strong relationships with each other or aren\u2019t involved with each other on a regular basis and\/or the female is very attentive or affectionate, paying a lot of attention to the male she is with at the time so they feel loved and special.<\/p>\n

\u201cPersonally I actively avoid the alpha-males. When I\u2019m getting to know a woman, if she describes her mate as somewhat jealous, having a temper, or any number of things commonly associated with alpha-males, I will either decline the relationship or push to meet the other male quickly. If we meet and there is immediate competition I won\u2019t pursue a relationship. This isn\u2019t to say alpha-males are all bad or a problem, but that I simply know myself well enough to know I wouldn\u2019t do well in that situation.<\/p>\n

\u201cInterestingly enough, one of my partners has come to feel the same way I do and will not pursue relationships with alpha-males. She has come to believe that they add a difficulty layer to her relationships, and a certain amount of drama, that she would rather avoid.\u201d<\/p>\n

I’ve had men say that the simple fact of their partner having another man “makes” them feel inadequate. Is this yet another challenge for men who are polyamorous?<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

\u201cAgain, I\u2019m back to social training. We all, men and women alike, are traditionally conditioned (in Western civilizations anyway) to believe we should pursue someone for a monogamous relationship. It is implied that once that relationship is consummated neither party will share their ‘private bits’ with others. Those raised in such a manner seem to have a tough time overcoming all that conditioning, and both sexes display feelings of inadequacy, insecurity, jealousy, or a host of other emotions when their partner has sex with someone else. In my experience, those who weren\u2019t raised to believe marriage and monogamy were the ultimate goal have far fewer feelings of inadequacy. Those who can\u2019t [overcome conditioning] may struggle with the feelings for an extended period of time.<\/p>\n

“In some ways that makes sense. If you spent 20+ years of your life being told that marriage and monogamy were the goals, wouldn\u2019t it make sense that it will take 20+ years to undo that conditioning?<\/p>\n

\u201c\u2026 [Your questions] are often questions or topics raised by those who are newer to polyamory. My experience has been that those are often fleeting feelings and concerns when someone first tries poly, but that they quickly give way. Much more common struggles revolve around things such as time, keeping commitments, defining hierarchies, finances, etc. \u2026<\/p>\n

\u201cFor example, I might hear a man say his partner is becoming overly focused on her other partner. At first that sounds like competition or jealousy, but after talking for a bit we (he and I both) will realize that he simply misses his partner. It isn\u2019t competition or jealousy, but simple yearning. His partner is maybe spending more time with her OSO (Other Significant Other) because he is stressed out, sick, or more needy than her other partner(s). The realization will result in his having a conversation with his partner about his needs. In that conversation it is easy for him to sound like he is jealous or possessive if he doesn\u2019t explain himself well.<\/p>\n

\u201cMany times I\u2019ve heard people express the need for equality when it comes to time with their partners when in fact it isn\u2019t feelings of jealousy or inadequacy but simply the desire for more time with their partner. In our man\u2019s conversation with his partner she may become defensive, thinking he is trying to control the situation. As you can see, the entire situation is fraught with assumptions we have based on the stereotypical expectations we have about men; that they are often jealous and controlling. If those assumptions are eliminated before the conversation even begins the talking will probably go more smoothly and the outcome will more likely be one of compromise and understanding.<\/p>\n

\u201cIn my opinion, men who are able to avoid assumptions about other men are much more likely to have a successful poly relationship with a woman who has other male partners. Likewise, I believe women who avoid those same assumptions about men are better able to compromise and support their partners\u2019 needs to achieve balance.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

By Maria Padhila I tend to like men. Surprise! And at the risk of sign-ism and\/or sounding like Cosmopolitan magazine, I tend to really like Capricorns. The Eeyore gloom, the way this mordant, louche sophistication combines with a stuffy, traditional integrity — that\u2019s a shallow way to put it, but there you go. The shallow … Read more<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":191,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"generate_page_header":""},"categories":[207],"tags":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42985"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/191"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=42985"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42985\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=42985"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=42985"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/planetwaves.net\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=42985"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}